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  1. #76
    Facts Are Misleading
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    It's retarded how Malone is viewed these days. It's like people forget he got booted out of the 1st round more times than he made it past before he got to the finals twice in a row. It's like they forget he crumbled in big situations.

  2. #77
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41
    You over-rate the crap out of malone through a regular game. And I'm actually higher on Malone than most.

    I don't need to sit here and say Malone was great. Everyone knows that. Its just a waste of time.

    Its about impact. You can't just break down a player the way you do because it leads to crappy conclusions. We've been over this so many times. Its why you think Pippen was better than Magic. Malone was a better defender and rebounder.....absolutely. But how much did those two things actually impact winning/losing over the defense and rebounding of Dirk? Its marginal to me....You act like Malone was Duncan or Hakeem on defense. He wasn't. Was he better than Dirk defensively? Sure, but not enough for it to matter nearly as much as you want it to.

    And for malone being better before crunch time. Again, marginal and debatable to begin with. Malone got fed so many easy buckets. And he deserves credit for being a freight train and impossible to stop running the lanes. But he also had one of the best pg's ever feeding him his entire career. That matters.

    And its not one sided if I think the deciding factor between to players that are obviously close in impact (if you watched them both play) is late game play. In the playoffs, what matters more? The problem with Malone is that his offensive game didn't translate well to late game play. He didn't have reliable moves to consistently beat defenders or defenses late in crunch time when easy baskets are taken away. You simply couldn't consistently run an offense through Malone late because of those holes in his game. Not to mention his inept ft shooting in crunch time at times as well.

    Does that mean Dirk is easily better? Of course not. I think its a good debate. But for people to come on here and act like its not close is absurd.

    But we all know the truth. If your team was entering the 4th qtr of a playoff game and the score is tied.....we all know which player you want. And yes...that matters a hell of a lot to me.

    And also, Malone could never have led a team like the 11 Mavs to the title at any point in his career. He just wasn't capable of doing it. And I'd take Dirk's chances matching Malone's 2 finals appearances....0 titles...playing for Sloan and with Stockton his entire career.

    That matters as well.

    Funny how you list Duncan/Spurs as a team that would kill Dirk. Do you remember 06? You know...a series that actually happened. You remember what Dirk did? But yea, Dirk would have no success playing for a better coach and with better players.....LOL
    Lol duncan was playing with plantar fascitus (I know I butchered that) something most players sit out for. And he still had a great statistical series. But you were referring to the great teams the dirk led mavs had to go through. The teams malones jazz faced were much better. That was my point.

    And since when does defense and rebounding not impact winning? It has just as much impact as scoring. Its just a matter of the the context.

    And just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you as far as malone/dirk. But damn at least be fair. Dirks failures as the mavs leaders is of much higher magnitude than malones and the jazz leader.

  3. #78
    Banned Duncan21formvp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Dirk beat Malone in 2001 when Malone had HCA.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=nowitdi01

    Place of first meeting:

    Malone age 35 vs Dirk age 20

    Playoff series meeting:

    Malone age 37 vs Dirk age 22

    Malone basically matched Dirk for 21 meetings (pretty much better stats wise) and his teams had the 12-9 edge. And this is Malone basically past his prime. And yes, Dirk wasn't in his prime yet but given it was a more physical era during Malone's time, I don't get the impression that Dirk would have been better than him prime vs prime. Unless Dirk could adjust the more physical pounding (which he could).

    Dirk's true advantages are in his shooting from mid range, 3 pointer, free throw line and better clutch player.

    Malone's true advantages are in his more accurate scoring, post play, rebounding, defense, and passing.
    Last edited by Legends66NBA7; 10-25-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  5. #80
    Serious playground baller Fazotronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacks3
    He's a consensus top 15 player ever...as he should be. 2nd-3rd best PF ever.

    Now dudes wanna put Dork over him?

    I guarantee nobody was saying this shit before Dirk won a ring, which is a TEAM accomplishment.

    SMH.
    you know that we are talking about all time lists. how do you think jordan got to the nr. 1 spot?
    you're saying "nobody was saying this before dirk won a ring". so are you just going to ignore this playoff run?
    whats your point?
    Last edited by Fazotronic; 10-25-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  6. #81
    Local High School Star WillC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=nowitdi01

    Place of first meeting:

    Malone age 35 vs Dirk age 20

    Playoff series meeting:

    Malone age 37 vs Dirk age 22

    Malone basically matched Dirk for 21 meetings (pretty much better stats wise) and his teams had the 12-9 edge. And this is Malone basically past his prime.
    ...and Dirk long before he reached his prime.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by WillC
    ...and Dirk long before he reached his prime.
    Oh forgot to mention that part. I will put that in now, thanks.

  8. #83
    NJ Net Fan For Life. wang4three's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    I'd pick Dirk, but it's mostly cause I really despise Karl Malone. Karl was a better passer and defender though. His problems have always been in the clutch. Also his skills varied depending on the era it was.

  9. #84
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls
    Lol duncan was playing with plantar fascitus (I know I butchered that) something most players sit out for. And he still had a great statistical series. But you were referring to the great teams the dirk led mavs had to go through. The teams malones jazz faced were much better. That was my point.

    And since when does defense and rebounding not impact winning? It has just as much impact as scoring. Its just a matter of the the context.

    And just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you as far as malone/dirk. But damn at least be fair. Dirks failures as the mavs leaders is of much higher magnitude than malones and the jazz leader.
    1. I never said defense and rebounding don't impact winning. But lets be real. Malone's defense and rebounding just didn't impact the game in a huge way compared to Dirk's.

    Malone 10.7 rpg in playoffs
    Dirk 10.4 rpg in playoffs

    Outside of a 3 game series in 89, Malone never really went higher than around 13 rpg in the playoffs. Dirk played the majority of his prime in the playoffs at or around 11 to 12 rpg. Rebounding just isn't that big of a deal in this case. Its marginal. Just like I said. You want it to be more, but its just not. Malone was a slightly better rebounder overall in the playoffs...nothing more.

    Defense? Again, Malone was better. But he didn't really make a huge impact defensively. It has to be high impact for it to matter. If you were comparing Duncan or KG to Dirk....defense plays a much bigger role. Malone to Dirk? Not even close to as big of a gap. Its marginal. You act like Malone was this all time great defender and that Dirk is some all time horrible defender. Just false...and you know it.

    What are Dirk's failures? Losing to the Warriors in 07? You bet. What else really?

    When he dragged another average supporting cast to the finals in 06...beating a great Spurs team? When he led them to 11 straight seasons of over 50 wins with turnover of coaches and players? When he won a title without an all star or all nba teammate as huge underdogs?

    And that isn't even mentioning his level of play. Dirk has actually had much fewer failures than most superstars have in the playoffs. He played one terrible series against the Warriors and really thats about it. Pretty much every single player in history has been horrible in the playoffs at one time or another.

    Remember when Dirk got hated on last year for the Spurs series? LOL....he played great overall. It was Terry, Kidd, Marion, Haywood, and Damp just sucking ass. Like usual I might add. Its funny how we want to act like Terry and Kidd have been great on the Mavs in the playoffs or something lately. They haven't been. They've been awful actually....up until this year of course. And what do you know....Dirk's teammates play really well and the Mavs win the title. Amazing how that works isn't it?

    And honestly, if Malone was as good as you say...or he didn't fail much...why only 2 finals appearances in his entire career playing with stockton and solid teams? And I can think of a number of times Malone failed....but its not that big of a deal because its normal.

    The truth is that Malone is simply not as good as his stats. Anyone that watched him play knows this. He didn't have that "it" at the end of games. And its my opinion that "it" matters a hell of a lot. More than absurdly slight edge in rebounding or impact defense. More than Malone getting spoonfed easy baskets all game until the going got tough and he found himself struggling to make plays, shots, and free throws under pressure. He wasn't a championship caliber go to player with the game on the line. You almost always need this to win unless your team is just loaded.
    Last edited by DMAVS41; 10-25-2011 at 04:14 PM.

  10. #85
    Local High School Star LBJFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Malone had 20 seasons and lost 20 times.

    http://espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/021115.html

  11. #86
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by WillC
    Ok, I'll trust a hardcore ISH armchair fan over respected journalists.
    Bill Simmons? Respected journalist?

    I guarantee you that posters on this site and others know wayyy more about basketball than those "respected journalists".


  12. #87
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacks3
    Bill Simmons? Respected journalist?

    I guarantee you that posters on this site and others know wayyy more about basketball than those "respected journalists".

    Too bad you aren't one of them, when are you going to make your 10th account on realgm?

  13. #88
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowtizki

    Malone>>Dork.

    Deal with it.

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