From one Kobe fan to another...

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

where's jlauber when you need him?

[The Next Jordan]

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

I like how you picked the one point out of the group of points I made that is mildly debatable.

[catch24]

Enough with the stupid threads. You don't need to tell any Kobe or Lakers fans what they already know. Only trolls, stans, and idiots (haters) concede differently.

[Boston C's]

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

I always thought chamberlain was overrated if he played in a decent era of big men he wouldnt put up the numbers he has...not to mention he has only 2 titles to show for it while being practically the only 7 footer in his era... and my opinion just for the heck of it is MJ> the Kareem and MJ is G.O.A.T. Thats only my respective opinion, I can see the argument for Kareem his resume is impressive but I just think that Wilt was a bit overrated

[kingkong]

uhhhh Wilt was one of the greatest athletes of all time, he would be really good in any era

the guy was 7'1 and around 300lbs

[Ne 1]

had jordan played a longer career and not opt out for baseball in that one season, he wouldve definitely won more chips. Kareem took 10 tries to achieve 6 where jordan won all of his appearances.

This isn't even a fair comparison anyway because Kareem lost to the Bird-led Celtics (twice), which were some of the greatest teams ever, the '83 Sixers (also one of the greatest teams ever) and during the Sixers series James Worthy and McAdoo were both injured (basically their entire bench!) and Worthy didn't play a single game in the Finals. Magic and Norm Nixon also stunk it up (shot 40% each), but Kareem carried his own weight. The '74 Celtics (with an aging Oscar playing like his 3rd best player...seriously ANY help at all, and he wins that game 7). Not to mention the 80's Celtics and Sixers are much better than the Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz teams Jordan went up against. Those squads wouldn't stand a chance against the 80's Celtics and Sixers.

The key when people look at Kareem's 6 rings and Jordan's 6 rings is that Kareem didn't even have a great team around him for most of his prime, whereas Jordan did. Still it doesn't matter, Kareem won 6 rings, 3 of them clearly as the best player, remained the go-to guy until the 5th ring. Statistically more dominant than Jordan. More valuable to his teams than Jordan (seriously 26 wins to 56 wins? That's insane!). No one is matching Kareem's production over an entire decade either.

As far as MVP goes the Bucks went from 26 wins to 56 wins when Kareem was added (BTW, Oscar wasn't even added yet!). Bucks made no other significant additions and in fact lost their 3rd leading scorer.

Bucks were on pace for 15-20 wins when Kareem broke his hand, and then when he came back they won at a pace of 55 wins. Lakers, when he broke his hand for a second time in '78, also were a lottery bound team without him.

His value to teams he led in his prime is just absolutely remarkable. Anyone else embody the title of MVP more than him?!

[Calabis]

Kareem > Jordan

NEXT

At least that is worth a debate...Kobe not so much

[Ne 1]

At least that is worth a debate...Kobe not so much

Yet it's the most debated topic in basketball.

If it wasn't worth debating then nobody would.....

[Calabis]

Yet it's the most debated topic in basketball.

If it wasn't worth debating then nobody would.....

Because you and u'r fellow stans overrate the hell out of Kobe, which forces several people to point out all of his flaws(in u'r world haters, in my world pointing out the obvious)...I have no problem with people saying Wilt or Kareem being better than MJ, at least they have the overall dominance of their peers and competition, to back up their claims....Kobe....

[AlphaWolf24]

meh....Kobe is still only 32 years old.....he has alot more basketball left.

Wait until his career is over before we judge him.

7 NBA Finals in 10 years as a starter and the premiere player for over a decade....think twice before discounting Kobe's career from here on out.

MJ won 3 more titles after 32 years old.....Kobe is still Dre.

[blablabla]

Playing in the 90s was much tougher than in the 70s/80s. Russell played in an era where there were half as many teams as there are today. Kareem's peak was nothing spectacular compared to jordan's.

[AirJordan&Magic]

You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.
8 more scoring titles, 4 more all-defensive team awards, and averaging more ppg. Both in the season and playoffs, all while playing 5 seasons less. And you're talking about the 80s where defense was non existant.

Oh and he also won DPOY where kareem didn't.

Not that I disagree with you, because I honestly think that the "G.O.A.T" title can be argued either way between Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Michael Jordan, and Bill Russell.
As crazy as this is going to sound, as an individual player, I even think a prime Shaq has a case.

But anyway, there were some things in your post that wasn't put into proper context.

First, the Dpoy award was not even handed out until 1983. Though Kareem was still a defensive anchor for the Lakers, he was way past his prime. I'm pretty sure he would've have won at least two dpoy awards if it existed during his prime years.

And imo, in terms of scoring titles, you also have to compare shot attempts per game and also the eras. In two of the four seasons Kareem averaged 30+ ppg, he didn't win the scoring title.
For example, Kevin Durant won the scoring title this year averaging "only" 27.7ppg. Kareem topped that 8 times in his career.... Not making excuses, I just think comparing scoring titles should be put in proper context.

I can agree with the rest of your post.

[Ne 1]

Because you and u'r fellow stans overrate the hell out of Kobe, which forces several people to point out all of his flaws(in u'r world haters, in my world pointing out the obvious)...I have no problem with people saying Wilt or Kareem being better than MJ, at least they have the overall dominance of their peers and competition, to back up their claims....Kobe....

Just shows how insecure MJ stans are.

If you honestly believed it wasn't worth debating than nobody would.

[AirJordan&Magic]

meh....Kobe is still only 32 years old.....he has alot more basketball left.

Wait until his career is over before we judge him.

7 NBA Finals in 10 years as a starter and the premiere player for over a decade....think twice before discounting Kobe's career from here on out.

MJ won 3 more titles after 32 years old.....Kobe is still Dre.

no, Kobe is simply just not as good as Michael Jordan and he never will be. Michael Jordan won 3 more titles after the age of 32 while still playing at a dominant level..... Kobe, not so much.

Kobe is an all time great and is a top 7-8 player of all time, but he will never surpass the likes of Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, and Magic Johnson. I don't even have him over Shaq at this point.

[Ne 1]

Anyway this is the majority opinion: