From one Kobe fan to another...

[game385]

I don't, and I've never really had any sort of interest for R&B/Pop. So I can't answer you as to whether or not Usher is/was hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson, as Kobe is hyped as this generation's Michael Jordan. But as a basketball player Kobe's one of the greatest ever....I don't see how anyone with any sort of good musical knowledge can say the same about Usher as a performer.

Now if in fact Usher is hyped up as this generation's Michael Jackson like Kobe is as this generation's Jordan, then I completely understand your analogy.

But I find It absurd to compare Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, to Usher as a performer.

Oh ok. You have to be familiar with R&B/Pop music and culture to fully appreciate the comparison but it is fair. Nobody in music has ever been crazy enough to say Usher is better than Michael Jackson, but once upon a time Usher was heralded as the heir apparent to the King of Pop's throne.
The closest thing this generation has ever seen to MJ can be said for both Usher and Kobe.

[I'm Seriously]

Oh ok. You have to be familiar with R&B/Pop music and culture to fully appreciate the comparison but it is fair. Nobody in music has ever been crazy enough to say Usher is better than Michael Jackson, but once upon a time Usher was heralded as the heir apparent to the King of Pop's throne.

If that Is the case than I totally get your analogy about Kobe and Usher being the Next "Michael" of there respective professions.

I just feel It's disrespectful to Kobe who's one of the greatest basketball players of all time, to compare him to Usher, who's not that good of an musician.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

I think that's up for debate. As an artist and performer, I wouldn't call Usher average at all. Probably a matter of musical taste tho.

However, think about Usher during the height of his popularity during the Confession album and ask yourself what other R&B/Pop artist has mirrored Michael Jackson as closely and as successfully as Usher?

You'd be hard pressed to find any artist that both sings and dances that hasn't studied or attempted mirror Michael Jackson in some fashion...

If Usher's average, who's above average? Justin Timberlake? Chris Brown? Ne-Yo? Omarion?...Pleaze... Sorry but of the new generation of singing and dancing male R&B artists, Usher has risen above the rest similarly to how Kobe has risen above his pears who have also been similarly influenced by the MJ of their business. D-Wade, T-Mac, LeBron, Vince Carter... Kobe's been more successful then all these guys and therein lie the heart of the analogy.

You think Usher is the best R&B singer out there right now?

[The Next Jordan]

You think Usher is the best R&B singer out there right now?

In terms of popularity and star power he is. R&B is a dying industry.

[Ne 1]

NEXT

Nope.

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.

He scored 6,000 more points.

He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.

He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.

Kareem impacted the game more. Sorry but there's just no way a 6'6 shooting guard can have more of an impact on a game revolving around throwing a ball through a 10-foot cylinder than a 7'2 giant with a skyhook. It's just not possible.

Everyone remembers the shot Mike hit to win a title at UNC. Well Kareem won 3 titles at UCLA and went 88-2 in the process!

He dominated his peers at every level, not just one.

He impacted his teams, immediately.

Kareem played from 1969-1989; he matched up against everyone from Wilt to Hakeem. He was a dominant player for over a generation. Not to mention the 70s was the greatest era of big men.

[hkfosho]

Nope.

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.

He scored 6,000 more points.

He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.

He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.

Kareem impacted the game more. Sorry but there's just no way a 6'6 shooting guard can have more of an impact on a game revolving around throwing a ball through a 10-foot cylinder than a 7'2 giant with a skyhook. It's just not possible.

Everyone remembers the shot Mike hit to win a title at UNC. Well Kareem won 3 titles at UCLA and went 88-2 in the process!

He dominated his peers at every level, not just one.

He impacted his teams, immediately.

Kareem played from 1969-1989; he matched up against everyone from Wilt to Hakeem. He was a dominant player for over a generation. Not to mention the 70s was the greatest era of big men.

You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.
8 more scoring titles, 4 more all-defensive team awards, and averaging more ppg. Both in the season and playoffs, all while playing 5 seasons less. And you're talking about the 80s where defense was non existant.

Oh and he also won DPOY where kareem didn't.

[The Next Jordan]

He won just as many titles and had one more MVP.

And 4 less finals MVP's. He didn't win 6 titles as the main piece of his team.

He scored 6,000 more points.

and played 16,435 more minutes (or the equivalent of 342 full 48 minute games), and put up 3770 more shots. Moot point.

He made 19 All-Star teams! Mike made 14.

He played 20 seasons (most in NBA history) Mike played 15. It wasn't even possible for him to have made 19 all-star teams.

He was also #3 in rebounds and #3 in blocks all-time.

He's a center. So there's no point in bringing that up in a MJ vs. Kareem debate.

[Ne 1]

And 4 less finals MVP's. He didn't win 6 titles as the main piece of his team.

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

[hkfosho]

Finals MVP is a pretty useless award. Also it didn't exist until '69, because had it did Russell would have more than anyone.

Ironic that FMVP's is used as primary supporting evidence of an argument against Kareem. Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

Regardless of the FMVPs, jordan still has a better resume. He's the better player just get over it.

[Ne 1]

You also forgot to mention that jordan was 6/6 in his finals championships where kareem was 6/10. he also won 6 finals MVP where kareem only won 2.

Because losing in the playoffs or missing the playoffs is better than making it to the Finals and then losing right?

Also a note on MVP's:

In 1980 sportswriters took over voting for MVP's. Before that the players themselves voted for the MVP award so Kareem's MVP's were being recognized by players, his peers... Jordan's were by sports writers

[Ne 1]

Regardless of the FMVPs, jordan still has a better resume. He's the better player just get over it.

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

[hkfosho]

Because losing in the playoffs or missing the playoffs is better than making it to the Finals and then losing right?

Also a note on MVP's:

In 1980 sportswriters took over voting for MVP's. Before that the players themselves voted for the MVP award so Kareem's MVP's were being recognized by players, his peers... Jordan's were by sports writers

had jordan played a longer career and not opt out for baseball in that one season, he wouldve definitely won more chips. Kareem took 10 tries to achieve 6 where jordan won all of his appearances.

And as for the mvp voting, jordan wouldve won way more if it was voted by players, just ask kareem's teammate magic johnson.

[Ne 1]

Either way I would go with Kareem if I'm starting a franchisee.

[hkfosho]

If you value winning Bill Russell is GOAT. If you value peak play Kareem or Wilt is the GOAT. If you value both equally, Kareem is still arguably GOAT (6 rings + 10 Finals appearances in 80s/70s is more impressive than 6 rings in the 90s imo).

Playing in the 90s was much tougher than in the 70s/80s. Russell played in an era where there were half as many teams as there are today. Kareem's peak was nothing spectacular compared to jordan's.

[hkfosho]

Either way I would go with Kareem if I'm starting a franchisee.

And i'm sure a lot of laker fans share the same thoughts as you.