Report: Gary Payton makes HOF (first ballot)

[MavsPoke]

No brainer first ballot HOF.

[Smoke117]

He's a first ballot hofer, but he's incredibly overrated offensively and somewhat overrated defensively. He was "the glove" aka a fantastic one on one defensive player, but to me Jason Kidd is the greatest defensive pg because he affected the game more because he was a fantastic TEAM/HELP DEFENDER. He made a bigger impact than Gary Payton and frankly no PG before or since has been such a terror defensively as Jason Kidd was. People overrate one on one defense. Sure it's important, but this isn't a one on one game, but a 5 on 5 game. Being a great one on one defensive player is all good and well ala Bruce Bowen, but you impact your teams overall defense if you are a great team defender like Jason Kidd.

Gary Payton is also extremely overrated offensively. When the Sonics were actually contenders he was at his best...but after Kemp left, Vin Baker was pretty much a bust dealing with his alcoholism, Gary pretty much just became a volume shooter on a team going nowhere but a first round exit. His offensive stats are inflated in the early 00s because he was allowed to do whatever he wanted, but his efficiency was mediocre at best. He just took a lot of shots and therefore he scored a lot of points. He was never meant to be a first option and his post Kemp efficiency shows that.

[GP_20]

Well deserved, have been waiting for this day for a while


Top 3 PG of All-Time in his prime. I would only take Magic or Big O at PG over Payton. No one else could play it as well. One of the most underrated players of all-time.

[GP_20]

He's a first ballot hofer, but he's incredibly overrated offensively and somewhat overrated defensively. He was "the glove" aka a fantastic one on one defensive player, but to me Jason Kidd is the greatest defensive pg because he affected the game more because he was a fantastic TEAM/HELP DEFENDER. He made a bigger impact than Gary Payton and frankly no PG before or since has been such a terror defensively as Jason Kidd was. People overrate one on one defense. Sure it's important, but this isn't a one on one game, but a 5 on 5 game. Being a great one on one defensive player is all good and well ala Bruce Bowen, but you impact your teams overall defense if you are a great team defender like Jason Kidd.

Gary Payton is also extremely overrated offensively. When the Sonics were actually contenders he was at his best...but after Kemp left, Vin Baker was pretty much a bust dealing with his alcoholism, Gary pretty much just became a volume shooter on a team going nowhere but a first round exit. His offensive stats are inflated in the early 00s because he was allowed to do whatever he wanted, but his efficiency was mediocre at best. He just took a lot of shots and therefore he scored a lot of points. He was never meant to be a first option and his post Kemp efficiency shows that.

[TheBigVeto]

Well deserved, have been waiting for this day for a while


Top 3 PG of All-Time in his prime. I would only take Magic or Big O at PG over Payton. No one else could play it as well. One of the most underrated players of all-time.

[D.J.]

Payton's shooting percentages decreased only because Kemp left and Baker was a bust. Payton had no choice but to shoot. Prior to age 30, Payton was good for 19-20 PPG on about 50% shooting. His eFG% was around 52-53%, which is very good for a guard. As far as his defensive contributions, I suggest you go watch him guard MJ in the '96 Finals. In 3 full games of guarding Mike, Mike averaged 23.7 PPG on 36.7% shooting(including 5/19 in game 6).

[Myth]

Possibly best 2-way pointguard ever.

Well, Stockton is in that same discussion.

[Smoke117]

Payton's shooting percentages decreased only because Kemp left and Baker was a bust. Payton had no choice but to shoot. Prior to age 30, Payton was good for 19-20 PPG on about 50% shooting. His eFG% was around 52-53%, which is very good for a guard. As far as his defensive contributions, I suggest you go watch him guard MJ in the '96 Finals. In 3 full games of guarding Mike, Mike averaged 23.7 PPG on 36.7% shooting(including 5/19 in game 6).

You don't even know your facts. Payton was on Pippen for about half that series. Pippen who was dealing with an severe ankle sprain, a knee injury, and an right arm sprain. Where do people manufacture this shit that Payton guarded Jordan for the entire series? The series only went six games because Pippen was so beat up and had no movement (being a slasher thats pretty severe), yet he still led the playoffs in drating and defensive win shares. The Sonics switched Payton onto Jordan around game 3 or or 4. Jordan just had an off series and they still beat the Sonics in 6 with Pippen beat the **** up.

[D.J.]

You don't even know your facts. Payton was on Pippen for about half that series. Pippen who was dealing with an severe ankle sprain, a knee injury, and an right arm sprain. Where do people manufacture this shit that Payton guarded Jordan for the entire series? The series only went six games because Pippen was so beat up and had no movement (being a slasher thats pretty severe), yet he still led the playoffs in drating and defensive win shares.

My facts are just fine. I said in 3 COMPLETE games. Payton started guarding Jordan in the second half of game 3. Games 4-6 make up 3 games. George Karl even admitted he made a mistake not letting Payton guard Jordan from the get go. Read the following:

In 3 full games of guarding Mike

[Smoke117]

My facts are just fine. I said in 3 COMPLETE games. Payton started guarding Jordan in the second half of game 3. Games 4-6 make up 3 games. George Karl even admitted he made a mistake not letting Payton guard Jordan from the get go. Read the following:

So I was right, thank you. Good job GP guarding an Scottie Pippen with multiple injuries for the series before you were switched to Jordan. If the Pippen was healthy this series wouldn't have gone past five games, period.

[Xiao Yao You]

He's a first ballot hofer, but he's incredibly overrated offensively and somewhat overrated defensively. He was "the glove" aka a fantastic one on one defensive player, but to me Jason Kidd is the greatest defensive pg because he affected the game more because he was a fantastic TEAM/HELP DEFENDER. He made a bigger impact than Gary Payton and frankly no PG before or since has been such a terror defensively as Jason Kidd was. People overrate one on one defense. Sure it's important, but this isn't a one on one game, but a 5 on 5 game. Being a great one on one defensive player is all good and well ala Bruce Bowen, but you impact your teams overall defense if you are a great team defender like Jason Kidd.

Gary Payton is also extremely overrated offensively. When the Sonics were actually contenders he was at his best...but after Kemp left, Vin Baker was pretty much a bust dealing with his alcoholism, Gary pretty much just became a volume shooter on a team going nowhere but a first round exit. His offensive stats are inflated in the early 00s because he was allowed to do whatever he wanted, but his efficiency was mediocre at best. He just took a lot of shots and therefore he scored a lot of points. He was never meant to be a first option and his post Kemp efficiency shows that.

Certainly not meant to be the efficient first option that Kidd was anyway.

[D.J.]

So I was right, thank you. Good job GP guarding an Scottie Pippen with multiple injuries for the series before you were switched to Jordan. If the Pippen was healthy this series wouldn't have gone past five games, period.

No you were not right. My facts were right, you made a false claim, and I proved you wrong.

[GP_20]

So I was right, thank you. Good job GP guarding an Scottie Pippen with multiple injuries for the series before you were switched to Jordan. If the Pippen was healthy this series wouldn't have gone past five games, period.

This Smoke117 guy is a total retard and just got owned

[kaiteng]

[JellyBean]

The Glove!!!! Congrats, GP



Now the HOF voters have to get their act together and put players like Marques Johnson in the HOF