Better 2-peat: 08-10 vs. 11-13

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If we're talking about pure stats, I'm not sure how it's more impressive to have similar stats against Western teams. 2014 is basically the only year in recent memory where the East has had the worse defense of the two conferences.

2012:
New York Knicks: DRTG: 100.5: 5th in the league
Indiana Pacers: DRTG: 103.1: 9th in the league
Boston Celtics: DRTG: 98.2 1st in the league
Oklahoma City Thunder: DRTG: 103.2 10th in the league

2013:
Milwaukee Bucks: DRTG: 105.2 12th in the league
Chicago Bulls: DRTG: 103.2 6th in the league
Indiana Pacers: DRTG: 99.8 1st in the league
San Antonio Spurs: DRTG: 101.2 3rd best in the league

Although they didn't win in 2011, that was their toughest defense they had to face:

Philly 76ers: DRTG: 105 7th in the league
Boston Celtics: DRTG: 100.3 1st in the league
Chicago Bulls: DRTG: 100.3 1st in the league
Dallas Mavericks: DRTG: 105 8th in the league

If anything, if their performances were equal, LeBron should be putting up slightly worse stats considering the tougher defenses. That's not the case, and LeBron is putting up slightly better stats against the tougher defenses.

There is also something to be said about great offenses making you work defensively, thus having to exude more energy trying to put up individual numbers.

There is no question, the 1-8 seeds in the West had a better combination of ORtg and DRtg (aka better teams)

[Mr. Jabbar]

more impressive? obviously the one that did it with gasol as 2nd option

oh and in the west

[DFish24]

Close, but Kobe because of superior competition.

[Rodmantheman]

Kobe played against much tougher competition, so I'll go with him.

2013 spurs any team Kobe faced in the 08-10 playoffs.

[J Shuttlesworth]

There is also something to be said about great offenses making you work defensively, thus having to exude more energy trying to put up individual numbers.

There is no question, the 1-8 seeds in the West had a better combination of ORtg and DRtg (aka better teams)

Fair point, but at the same time, Heat were able to beat the 2012 Thunder in 5 games... and that was the best competition in the West that year. From a winning the ring standpoint, I can understand saying the Lakers faced harder teams. If we're just talking about Kobe/LeBron's performance, I can't see how it's more impressive to score similar numbers against easier defenses. Worse defense should lead to more PPG and assists, but Kobe doesn't really edge out LeBron in those categories

[Warfan]

Id rank them

2012
2009
2013/2010 (might have too look up the numbers, but from what I remember it would be pretty tough too choose)

So Ill give the edge to bron since he played better defense and had more impact IMO.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Fair point, but at the same time, Heat were able to beat the 2012 Thunder in 5 games... and that was the best competition in the West that year. From a winning the ring standpoint, I can understand saying the Lakers faced harder teams. If we're just talking about Kobe/LeBron's performance, I can't see how it's more impressive to score similar numbers against easier defenses. Worse defense should lead to more PPG and assists, but Kobe doesn't really edge out LeBron in those categories

No offense, but if you say I had a "fair point", then why the bold?

I literally just explained why that isn't always the case lol

[AnaheimLakers24]

lakers

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Lebron, like shaq, mj, bird & other greats before him he managed to win all the major accolades in one season, the MVP, fmvp & championship. In my eyes that's a true indicator of greatness.

[J Shuttlesworth]

No offense, but if you say I had a "fair point", then why the bold?

I literally just explained why that isn't always the case lol

Because you're right in that offensive teams make you work harder on the offensive end... but so do great defensive teams. Great offensive teams generally play at a faster pace with higher scoring games, so Kobe's scoring should be inflated by that. You said good offense makes you work harder on the scoring end, so why aren't Kobe's scoring numbers significantly greater than LeBron, who is playing tougher defenses?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Because you're right in that offensive teams make you work harder on the offensive end... but so do great defensive teams. Great offensive teams generally play at a faster pace with higher scoring games, so Kobe's scoring should be inflated by that. You said good offense makes you work harder on the scoring end, so why aren't Kobe's scoring numbers significantly greater than LeBron, who is playing tougher defenses?

Well, it's not just great offensive teams, but teams with BOTH an offense and defense. That was my original point. Teams in the west, on average, are better on both ends than teams in the east.

I'm not saying the comparison isn't close or anything, just that I find Kobe's numbers a little more impressive when we take this into account.

[sbw19]

[COLOR=Teal]Records of teams faced during 2-peat (number of games series went in parentheses)[/COLOR]

___
1st title
Lakers vs Heat
48-34(5) vs 36-30(5)
53-29(7) vs 42-24(6)
54-28(6) vs 39-27(7)
59-23(5) vs 47-19(5)

2nd title
Lakers vs Heat
50-32(6) vs 38-44(4)
53-29(4) vs 45-37(5)
54-28(6) vs 49-32(7)
50-32(7) vs 58-24(7)
___
[COLOR=Teal]
Draw your own conclusions.[/COLOR]

[Milbuck]

[COLOR=Teal]Records of teams faced during 2-peat (number of games series went in parentheses)[/COLOR]

___
1st title
Lakers vs Heat
48-34(5) vs 36-30(5)
53-29(7) vs 42-24(6)
54-28(6) vs 39-27(7)
59-23(5) vs 47-19(5)

2nd title
Lakers vs Heat
50-32(6) vs 38-44(4)
53-29(4) vs 45-37(5)
54-28(6) vs 49-32(7)
50-32(7) vs 58-24(7)
___
[COLOR=Teal]
Draw your own conclusions.[/COLOR]

The 2012 season was only 66 games..you gotta adjust the wins for the Heat opponents. The 2009 teams Kobe faced still had more wins in every round though.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Well, it's not just great offensive teams, but teams with BOTH an offense and defense. That was my original point. Teams in the west, on average, are better on both ends than teams in the east.

I'm not saying the comparison isn't close or anything, just that I find Kobe's numbers a little more impressive when we take this into account.

Nothing you're saying is wrong when considering Heat vs. Lakers, but when you're talking about LeBron's stats vs. Kobe's, you have to factor in the defense. I agree that the teams in the West are overall better teams, but tougher defensive teams will bring down a player's offensive numbers more than a balanced offense/defense team.

I can't see Kobe's numbers going up if he had to face the eastern defenses. Would the Lakers wins come easier? Sure, but would their numbers be higher? I don't think so

[Inferno]

Digging the serious discussion going on here