How did Birdman slip through the cracks??

[NuggetsFan]

It IS unfair. Birdman was a staple of Nuggets basketball in the Melo era and a HUGE part of that team. So for him to be benched for a couple years for the development of younger players? He should have been traded a couple years ago and handled with a bit more respect from Karl IMO.

I'd love to see the article though.

George Karl and the Denver Nuggets saved the dude's career. Birdman simply fell outside the rotation. It was for some of the younger players, things changed up, he got himself into some legal trouble, I also believe on top of all that he got himself hurt.

Dude has NEVER got big minutes. Even in his two big years for Denver he was at like 20 minutes. After that I believe we had him at 10-15 per game.

Really you're an idiot. Denver took on this guy and gave him a pretty big role after everything. He was a fan favorite but even now Denver has 3 better centers in Mosgov, Kosta, McGee? What do you want us to do? Play him over those guy's? Play him over Faried?

Good on Birdman tho, he was really liked here. You're just acting like a 12 year old kid right now, poor Andersen mean 'ol Nuggets!

[Clippersfan86]

George Karl and the Denver Nuggets saved the dude's career. Birdman simply fell outside the rotation. It was for some of the younger players, things changed up, he got himself into some legal trouble, I also believe on top of all that he got himself hurt.

Dude has NEVER got big minutes. Even in his two big years for Denver he was at like 20 minutes. After that I believe we had him at 10-15 per game.

Really you're an idiot. Denver took on this guy and gave him a pretty big role after everything. He was a fan favorite but even now Denver has 3 better centers in Mosgov, Kosta, McGee? What do you want us to do? Play him over those guy's? Play him over Faried?

Good on Birdman tho, he was really liked here. You're just acting like a 12 year old kid right now, poor Andersen mean 'ol Nuggets!

Anderson was proven as a role player. Koufas is inconsistent as shit and Mozgov is a scrub. McGee as it is doesn't get the minutes he should. I mean really Karl is just a poor manager of minutes, that's all it is. I never said he played big minutes... but going from 15-20 MPG to tons of DNP's?

[coin24]

Have to agree, Karls management of his teams minutes is just
Shitty overrated coach.

Damn wish the lakers snapped up birdman, or kenyon

[NuggetsFan]

Anderson was proven as a role player. Koufas is inconsistent as shit and Mozgov is a scrub. McGee as it is doesn't get the minutes he should. I mean really Karl is just a poor manager of minutes, that's all it is.

I'm not going to defend George Karl and his use of minutes but I can't believe you're actually sitting here trying to defend keeping Birdman. I just don't get it, are you upset with Denver and trying to like lash out?

Birdman is nowhere near the guy he use to be. He did lose that athletic ability and is no doubt past his prime. If he was in that '08-09 form this would be a different story but he's not. His level of play just kept on dropping off in a Nuggets uniform and was owed a good chunk of money so Denver made the move to get rid of him, after injuries/legal trouble.

Right now? Kosta is better. Birdman got the crowd going and people amped but he literally fell for EVERY shot fake. Great shot blocker, great help defense, terrible man defense. Kosta doesn't give you the blocks, he plays his man better tho while still sending a few shots back. Birdman was probably the better rebounder, Kosta is solid on that end and is better offensively than him.

Mosgov, I dunno. Currently? I'd rather have him than Bird. McGee goes without question. He's just a more athletic, skilled, lankier, dumber version of Bird.

Denver was the first NBA team he ever played for. We were the first team that took a chance on him after his suspension. He actually had a small stint as a successful player, was a fan favorite etc. it came to an end mainly because dude was like 33, in the middle of another scandal, had injuries and Denver just started to rebuild their entire roster

I fail to see ANY issue here.

[Clippersfan86]

Are you going to remain paranoid? I haven't been badmouthing ANY teams lately and obviously I didn't make this thread to piss on the Nuggets. As for his decline... what is there to decline from? He's a hustle, garbage player who helps on the glass and defends. I'm not saying dude was a star or anything. I understand you guys have a lot of centers but why not go back to the proven product over inconsistent Euro bigs who aren't good for much more than the occasional hard foul or rebound?

If it was some big issue I was trying to point out... I would have titled this thread "Denver is stupid" etc. Instead I made it a general thread more centered around how only ONE team contacted this guy who could likely help at least 15 teams off the bench. In other words... stop being so defensive and try to follow the point of the thread which was about CHRIS ANDERSON not the Nuggets. Sure by default I discussed the Nuggets not giving him a chance lately but... they aren't my main focus.

[GoldNugg21]

Are you going to remain paranoid? I haven't been badmouthing ANY teams lately and obviously I didn't make this thread to piss on the Nuggets. As for his decline... what is there to decline from? He's a hustle, garbage player who helps on the glass and defends. I'm not saying dude was a star or anything. I understand you guys have a lot of centers but why not go back to the proven product over inconsistent Euro bigs who aren't good for much more than the occasional hard foul or rebound?

If it was some big issue I was trying to point out... I would have titled this thread "Denver is stupid" etc. Instead I made it a general thread more centered around how only ONE team contacted this guy who could likely help at least 15 teams off the bench. In other words... stop being so defensive and try to follow the point of the thread which was about CHRIS ANDERSON not the Nuggets. Sure by default I discussed the Nuggets not giving him a chance lately but... they aren't my main focus.

Okay so while Karl stupidly had this guy rotting on the bench the last couple years multiple times I've thought to myself... that he should get playing time. A guy like that who's entire game is based on energy as a garbage, hustle player isn't going to go from a beast to a scrub that quickly.

So he rots the last 2 or 3 years on the bench... shockingly nobody but Miami wants him and calls him up while he's sitting at home on the couch and low and behold he's been a fantastic addition to the defending champs.


1. Why did George Karl let him rot when he still had game? Yes I know the criminal accusations ruined his rep a bit but he could still play. Yes I know about his knee injury/surgery as well.

A majority of your first post was about how our coach is an idiot and then you went into how our organization is crappy for how we treated him. But no, you didn't badmouth anybody!

Here's what happened with Bird: he was likely our 2nd best option at center last year, but with the trade for McGee and the extension of Koufus, it became clear that he was no longer the future. For about half of the season, he fell out of the rotation in favor of the younger guys; prior to that point he had gotten consistent rotation minutes, so I don't know where you get 2 years from. Koufus took a step forward with the additional playing time, and is now a solid player that is not a liability starting at center, not "inconsistent as sh!t". Over the offseason, in addition to his legal issues (which were never really clear), we had 4 of our roster spots filled with centers and no real depth at PF. It made sense to cut ties with Bird and bring in Randolph.

All indications were that the team supported him when the allegations were brought forward, and he took time off from the team to defend himself at that time. There's really not much the Nuggets could do at that point. He was always a huge fan favorite, but a lot of people turned on him when the associations with child porn came about, even without knowing the whole story (or any of the story really) until much later.

I'm glad he's found a home somewhere, he should have been grabbed sooner. Perfect fit for the Heat.

[NuggetsFan]

Are you going to remain paranoid? I haven't been badmouthing ANY teams lately and obviously I didn't make this thread to piss on the Nuggets. As for his decline... what is there to decline from? He's a hustle, garbage player who helps on the glass and defends. I'm not saying dude was a star or anything. I understand you guys have a lot of centers but why not go back to the proven product over inconsistent Euro bigs who aren't good for much more than the occasional hard foul or rebound?

If it was some big issue I was trying to point out... I would have titled this thread "Denver is stupid" etc. Instead I made it a general thread more centered around how only ONE team contacted this guy who could likely help at least 15 teams off the bench. In other words... stop being so defensive and try to follow the point of the thread which was about CHRIS ANDERSON not the Nuggets. Sure by default I discussed the Nuggets not giving him a chance lately but... they aren't my main focus.

I'm not paranoid, guess I'm just curious. I can't see one single reason why somebody would be confused about Birdman getting let go from the Nuggets. Dude was looking at like 4.5 mill + almost 5 mill in the next two years, what's the point when you have younger centers who are better? Denver didn't owe him any favors, they picked him up after he got himself kicked out of the league. Not the other way around.

What's there to decline from? His game was based 100% on athletic ability. Getting a big crowd changing dunk. Coming over from the helpside and swatting a shot back in somebody's face. Yeah obviously some skill in it it too but 3 years ago he was doing like 6/6 and blocking 2+ shots in 20 minutes of play. That was at his best for Denver. At 34, he's not the same. Still a solid role player, but more like 10-15 minutes of player time as opposed to the 20 he use to get.

Kosta is averaging 8/6 and blocking 1.5 shots a game in a similar amount of time. Just as good as Birdman in the dude's prime without the momentum changing ability, and the mistakes. I'd give Bird a nod a few years back because he was awesome but now? Dude's 34 years old. Kosta is 23 years old and having himself an impressive season starting for Denver. Mosgov has talent, mobility too but has got stuck behind Kosta and McGee. All 3 players are better than Birdman, we could offer either one of the 3 for Birdman and the Heat would be like seriously? Deal.

It's not being defensive. Like I said I don't get it. Denver gave him a chance twice. He played a nice little role for awhile, was set to make way more than he should. Denver cut ties and went with the youth. Tons of teams do that. It wasn't a mistake. George Karl? We sit here for days and talk about his mistakes and his handling of players minutes but Birdman wouldn't be included in that.

Fair enough tho. I'm sure teams in the league are really beating themselves up over it.

[Clippersfan86]

My only comment regarding the Nuggets that you showed are "Karl stupidly let him rot". I even said in other posts that no doubt IN GENERAL the Nuggets were good and fair to him but the benching him basically for the last two years was handled poorly.

[GoldNugg21]

My only comment regarding the Nuggets that you showed are "Karl stupidly let him rot". I even said in other posts that no doubt IN GENERAL the Nuggets were good and fair to him but the benching him basically for the last two years was handled poorly.

Except he wasn't benched for anything close to 2 years...

In 10-11, he lost time due to injury but played a standard 15MPG bench role when healthy. Last year, he maintained that role until the team decided to see what the younger centers could do, and was essentially benched for the second half of the season. This ended up coinciding with the legal troubles.

1/2 of a lockout season of benching does not equal 2 years.

[Clippersfan86]

Except he wasn't benched for anything close to 2 years...

In 10-11, he lost time due to injury but played a standard 15MPG bench role when healthy. Last year, he maintained that role until the team decided to see what the younger centers could do, and was essentially benched for the second half of the season. This ended up coinciding with the legal troubles.

1/2 of a lockout season of benching does not equal 2 years.

All I know is... I've consistently seen him rack up DNP's with my own eyes over the last two seasons. I do remember when he was injured and had knee surgery or w/e but when healthy he's had DNP's and in general got shoved to the bottom of the rotation. I'm not being literally when I say he was benched for 2 years as I've already said he's played some. It's more a noticeable role reduction I'm referring to.

He went from a career high 22.5 minutes per game to 16.3 in 2010 and last year was down to 15. That doesn't account for DNP's in there either.

[GoldNugg21]

All I know is... I've consistently seen him rack up DNP's with my own eyes over the last two seasons. I do remember when he was injured and had knee surgery or w/e but when healthy he's had DNP's and in general got shoved to the bottom of the rotation. I'm not being literally when I say he was benched for 2 years as I've already said he's played some. It's more a noticeable role reduction I'm referring to.

He went from a career high 22.5 minutes per game to 16.3 in 2010 and last year was down to 15. That doesn't account for DNP's in there either.

You consistently saw him rack up DNP-CD's at the end of last year. That's it.

Yes, he saw a minute reduction, which went right along with a decrease in usefulness. There's not really anything else to see there.

[daily]

My impression was that his sexual-assault case was making team scared of him. Business people are extremely scared of hiring high profiled people with cases like that.

The case is closed and Birdman is not guilty.

This

[Blingster]

He missed the first 10 games of 2010. In December he fell hard on his back ( I was at this game ironically) and missed another 14 games or so

here is a link to the article

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/stor...in-with-injury


During this time Nuggets still had Nene, Koufos, and Mozgov.. Nuggets had just signed Koufos to an extension. Nene was a big contract still. I would imagine the ( Karl and staff) were trying to see where the newly acquired Mozgov fit into the rotation. While not "fair" to Bird, I understand why this done.

[Hank]

.

"In a little over a full game's worth of action (52 minutes), Andersen has registered 20 points, 19 rebounds, two blocks and two steals.

If he keeps up his strong play, there might even be a starting job in his future. When Spoelstra was asked whether he could see Andersen eventually starting for the team down the road, the coach said he prefers Andersen coming off the bench.

At least for the time being.

"Right now," Spoelstra said," I like it."

Heat head coach Erik Spoelstra insists that he's not playing Andersen 12-15 minutes a night just to help get him into playing shape.

"I’m not trying to condition him," Spoelstra said. "I’m playing him because he’s helping us."

Spoelstra likes what he's seen so far. The hustle plays. The rebounds from out of nowhere. The coast-to-coast drives. That's not stuff that you're seeing from Udonis Haslem and Anthony. And you'll never see Andersen take a play off.

"He doesn’t save anything," Spoelstra said. "He doesn’t pace himself. He’ll play until his tank is absolutely empty. Or until he passes out."

Spoelstra admitted that he initially wasn't planning to play Andersen until after the All-Star break. The coach wasn't sure how long it would take for Andersen to get conditioned and comfortable in the Heat's schemes. Those concerns are obviously gone now, but Spoelstra expects Andersen to need another six to eight weeks before he's in top shape.

But the thing that has intrigued Spoelstra the most is what he calls the "vertical spacing" that Andersen brings. The idea: Throw the ball up in the air and let Andersen catch it for an easy bucket. Bosh is usually out on the perimeter. Haslem doesn't have the legs or the height to pull that off consistently. Anthony doesn't have the hands to make it worthwhile. But Andersen has that promise.

At Wednesday's shootaround, Spoelstra as well as James, Dwyane Wade, Mario Chalmers and even Ray Allen drilled the lob pass to Andersen over and over. It's what Spoelstra fears the most when playing against athletic big men like Tyson Chandler and Dwight Howard. Now, he's trying it out with Andersen.

“We haven’t had that element before other than Dwyane and LeBron in the fast break," Spoelstra said. "Guys are starting to see it now, but the play is there."

For more:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/mia...light-in-miami

[kurple]

It IS unfair. Birdman was a staple of Nuggets basketball in the Melo era and a HUGE part of that team. So for him to be benched for a couple years for the development of younger players? He should have been traded a couple years ago and handled with a bit more respect from Karl IMO.

I'd love to see the article though.

Birdman was a monster when we picked him up in 08. And deserved the contract the nuggets gave him.

He became OK after he got the new contract. He wasnt horrible, but he didnt do anything special for the team anymore. I dont know why it happened, but it happened.

OFC you give minutes to young, talented big men (who already played just as good), rather than an overpayed player who has been regressing for a while

Birdman did not wind up in the dog house because of the pornstuf. But because of his play, salary and competition

In the interview he was told he was a fan favorite in Denver and said "Really? I was?". As if he could tell they turned their back on him. Good to see Miami embrace him so much.

Birdman knew he was a fan favorite in Denver. The Pepsi Center loved him more than any other player

I love Birdman, but he wasnt ment to be in Denver after his first one or two seasons. I think he could be great for Miami.