So what will be the perception of nowitzki if he doesnt win another ring?

[MichaelCheazley]

A representative of one country. A player who toughed it out and never gave up. He did not bolt back to europe when he was struggling. He adjusted his game and became an enigma. He developed a game like no one else's at his frame. He persevered and had constant regular season sucess. His loyalty was shown countless times and he is now rewarded with a ring. He is going to be remembered as a great player and a Hall of famer.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, poor Dirk. He's only had the best owner in sports putting together huge pay-rolls every year. He's only played with Nash (All-Star),Finley (All-Star),NXE,Jamison (All-Star),Walker (All-Star),Jason Terry (multiple 6th-man of the year winner),Josh Howard (All-Star),Devin Harris,Jason Kidd, Marion, Chandler, etc etc. It's just hilarious how these Dork fans act like he's been surrounded by garbage like KG in Minny or T-Mac in ORl. Dude has played with a TON of talent.

[DMAVS41]

Kidd is 39.. Chandler might not be coming back.. Marion and Terry are a year older.

Chances of repeating are pretty slim. Dirk has made 3 WCF and 2 Finals and is a Finals MVP. Losing early in the playoffs next year (like Kobe and Duncan did this year) wouldn't tarnish anything.

Yep.

Nothing can really change:

11 straight seasons over 50 wins
26/10/3 on great efficiency for his career in the playoffs. Definitely one of the best stat lines ever in the playoffs

Dirk has played for 13 years now. His legacy is wrapped up. He's in that group of players after the top 12 or 13......whether someone likes it or not. No reason to rank guys like Barkley, KG, and Malone on a different level than Dirk.

I called this a while back. I said that if Dirk wins and does something legendary like he did, the haters will be calling at a "fluke" and saying he should have won more. If you don't count the 03 team because Dirk got injured....Dirk has had 3 chances in his career to win the title. And that is being generous for 06 considering they were huge underdogs to get out of the 2nd round and Dirk has never had the best team around him. I'd say a title, 3 trips to the wcf, and 2 trips to the finals given his supporting casts is pretty damn good.

How many players in the history of the game would have been capable of leading the 11 Mavs to a title? Honestly how many? No more than 10 to 15 in NBA history.

[brisbaneman]

If only Dirk were black, right?

[FF1]

How many players in the history of the game would have been capable of leading the 11 Mavs to a title? Honestly how many? No more than 10 to 15 in NBA history.

In hindsight, people will list a ton of players... But before the playoffs started, everyone said he had a bad supporting cast that could never win.

That's just the way it goes.

[Kblaze8855]

1 or 5....nothing left to prove.

However....

Or playing for Pop and with Manu/Parker on those very good Spurs teams?

Those teams were just not that good. Duncan won it all with like a 38% shooting young Manu parker putting up like 15 on 40% shooting Drob and his 7 or 8ppg as a role player and young barely in the NBA Jackson.

The spurs were never winning off talent.

[FF1]

1 or 5....nothing left to prove.

However....



Those teams were just not that good. Duncan won it all with like a 38% shooting young Manu parker putting up like 15 on 40% shooting Drob and his 7 or 8ppg as a role player and young barely in the NBA Jackson.

The spurs were never winning off talent.

That 05 team was pretty dang good.. but I see your point. No one is saying Dirk is better than Duncan.

[Kblaze8855]

Pretty good. Yes. Not talented enough to be listed as somethinga guy like Dirk didnt get to have. They were not talented for a title team. They were not terribly talented for a finals team that loses either. They were less talented than the finals losers in like...6 of the first 7 years of the 90s.

[raiderfan19]

Yeah, poor Dirk. He's only had the best owner in sports putting together huge pay-rolls every year. He's only played with Nash (All-Star),Finley (All-Star),NXE,Jamison (All-Star),Walker (All-Star),Jason Terry (multiple 6th-man of the year winner),Josh Howard (All-Star),Devin Harris,Jason Kidd, Marion, Chandler, etc etc. It's just hilarious how these Dork fans act like he's been surrounded by garbage like KG in Minny or T-Mac in ORl. Dude has played with a TON of talent.

Kg had marbury(all star), gugliotta(all star) spreewell(all star) cassell(all star) sczerbiak(all star) Christian laettner(all star, terry porter(all star), isiah rider, terrell brandon, bobby jackson and joe smith.

You see how much fun it can be to pull names off a roster with no context? And with all that talent kg only made it out of the first round twice.

Even if you include the ridiculous amounts of talent hes had in boston hes still had less playoff success than dirk

[DMAVS41]

1 or 5....nothing left to prove.

However....



Those teams were just not that good. Duncan won it all with like a 38% shooting young Manu parker putting up like 15 on 40% shooting Drob and his 7 or 8ppg as a role player and young barely in the NBA Jackson.

The spurs were never winning off talent.

03...totally agree. And I'm not saying Dirk is near Duncan. He's not in my opinion.

But Duncan had better teams and coaching on the whole than Dirk did.

And its funny that Robinson is lamented for his playoffs in 03 by a lot of people. He put up 8/7 and still played quality defense. Not too far off from the impact Chandler had this year.

The reason the Spurs won in 03 is because Duncan is truly one of the 8 greatest players of all time and just clearly better than Dirk.

But those other years? Give me teams like the 05 and 07 Spurs all day over what Dirk was working with.

[Jacks3]

You see how much fun it can be to pull names off a roster with no context? And with all that talent kg only made it out of the first round twice.

lol

Stop trying to engage in revisionist history. Everyone knows KG in Minny had horrible supporting casts. It's a fact. Dirk has blessed to play on a team with the best owner in the game. He's had shit-loads of talent every year.

Even if you include the ridiculous amounts of talent hes had in boston hes still had less playoff success than dirk

Not really. Both have 1 title as "The Man". All that really matter.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that KG in his prime/peak was just a better player. It's not arguable.

[raiderfan19]

lol

Stop trying to engage in revisionist history. Everyone knows KG in Minny had horrible supporting casts. It's a fact. Dirk has blessed to play on a team with the best owner in the game. He's had shit-loads of talent every year.

Not really. Both have 1 title as "The Man". All that really matter.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that KG in his prime/peak was just a better player. It's not arguable.

How is my list any different then yours? Were some of the guys on my list past their primes? Yes but so were some people on yours. Were some of them only there for a year or two but so were quite a few of yours.

[Kblaze8855]

03...totally agree. And I'm not saying Dirk is near Duncan. He's not in my opinion.

But Duncan had better teams and coaching on the whole than Dirk did.

And its funny that Robinson is lamented for his playoffs in 03 by a lot of people. He put up 8/7 and still played quality defense. Not too far off from the impact Chandler had this year.

The reason the Spurs won in 03 is because Duncan is truly one of the 8 greatest players of all time and just clearly better than Dirk.

But those other years? Give me teams like the 05 and 07 Spurs all day over what Dirk was working with.

Eh. I just cant imagine giving Duncan Nash and 3 more all stars and losing in the first round, or him in his prime getting guarded by swingmen putting up like 13/7 on 2-11 shooting getting put out of the playoffs, or anything like that. Not MVP level Duncan which Dirk was in 07.

Dirks teams are said to have been poorly built. For the most part they lacked the same things Dirk lacks. They were pretty much built in his image early then got a lot more success when they swapped out some of the talent and played winning playoff basketball. But the talent itself wasnt the issue.

The 05 Spurs were not especially talented. They were one great player 2 borderline all stars...and some guys. Teams with the same level of talent miss the playoffs or get low seeds without much of a fuss being made. The Nuggets have given Melo more help than that. Nash had more. Dirk at times. Lebron last year. Webber. Shaq. Kobe.

It wasnt really all that much help. But they played D, had chemistry, and a winning formula based on duncan on both ends. Doesnt make the rest of the guys especially talented for a dynasty level team.

If you say Dirk would be better off in that setting...you could make the case easily. But Dirk wasnt the kind of player you try to build those teams around really. You have to fill holes not there to fill with Duncan around.

Takes a while to get it right. Cant just assume Dirk plus...a couple borderline all stars and a grab bag of random role players would win if they just...try to play defense. Has to fall just right. As it did last year.

But guys like Duncan make it more likely to work. Cant really just say Duncan had great coaching and defense along with his good guards. Duncan helped provide those things. Not like Pop just miracled them to success when they were a 20 win team with Drob out pre Duncan. Duncan himself provided the things they needed to not just be a sum of their parts.

Cant really throw Dirk in and assume he does the same. I dont see him having any better of a chance than he had on the Mavs. They have contended for 10 years, made 2 finals, won 67 and like 62 and 59 in years they didnt and always been in talks for who would win. They didnt exactly give him lemons and ask for Cristal.

[FF1]

How many players were all-stars WHILE they played with Dirk.

Finley and Nash... and they lost to the GOAT PF Duncan (while Dirk was injured.. although I'm not sure that would have been enough to beat him)

...... who else? Josh Howard? He was a replacement all-star for 1 year but I'll give you that I guess.

Who else?

[MichaelCheazley]

If you count it J kidd the year he was traded for devin harris.