Peter Vecsey's interview with MJ from July '94

[Fatal9]

It seems like I've read excerpts of some of this stuff in the past but never the entire thing, so I'm guessing it's pretty rare?

It had been well over a year since I saw Michael Jordan in person; Game 6 of the 1993 Finals in Phoenix, to be precise. More than two years had evaporated since we'd had any kind of undisturbed, lengthy communication. For most of his career, Jordan had been one of sports' most accessible and cooperative superstars. Rarely did anyone in the media come away from even an impromptu interview without a great story. Then, following the Bulls' first championship stampede, there was money to be made off his legend, and his confidants were the first to capitalize.

Controversial statements regarding teammates and opponents stuff he'd been saying for years in front of familiar faces, suddenly became public. Shortly thereafter, his bent for betting, his association with lowlifes and his monumental losses in golf and cards were exposed and magnified out of proportion. Consequently, as the Bulls evolved into your every day dynasty - repeating and threepeating - and the scrutiny of Jordan's lifestyle intensified, he made himself unavailable to real reporters. Physically drained, mentally exhausted, uninspired and unchallenged, organized basketball had become a serious drag. Most people are under the impression that his father's death a year ago on July 23, eight days before his birthday, was the driving force behind Michael's premature retirement at age 31. They are mistaken.

THAT was the first point the Birmingham Barren (hitting .187) right fielder emphasized after we sat down with Magic guard Nick Anderson and former Bulls' teammate Rod Higgins following Tuesday night's 3-2, 10-inning loss to the Orlando Cubs. "During the second half of my last season, I'd tell the guys over a couple beers on flights after games I was going to retire. But they didn't believe me," Jordan recounted. " 'You'll see,' I told 'em. I
had totally lost interest. I knew I had to give it up." For several significant reasons:

"My father was after me all that season to pack it in when it was over. He felt my teammate didn't appreciate what I was doing for them," said Jordan, specifically referring to Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. "I covered their asses when they got tight at the end of games and I had to overcome fourth-quarter deficits all by myself. It bothered my father a lot, just as it bothered me, to hear them bitchin' about not getting enough credit, or not getting enough shots, or squawking about the supposed preferential treatment I was getting from [coach] Phil Jackson 'I said to Horace, 'Why should you worry about what I'm getting now when I'm not worried about what you're going to get later?"

"They had no idea how much pressure and grief I had to put up with off the court while carrying them on the court. I wanted them to find out for themselves how tough it was to be on their own," Jordan underlined. "Scottie found out the hard way what it's like to be under the microscope 24 hours a day. "For the first half of the season he did great carrying the team, the second half not so great. Sitting at the end of Game 3 against the Knicks was the worst thing he could've done. I don't think he'll ever live that down.

"He should have known better. Plenty of times Phil I would use me as a decoy in that same situation. I didn't like it either, but you can't say anything. You wait until you're behind closed doors until you wait to complain.

"The thing about it is, if Toni Kukoc missed the last shot, Phil's neck was on the line, not Scottie's. The game would've gone into overtime and Scottie
would've had the opportunity to win it."

JORDAN'S retirement was also prompted by Jackson's continual desire to down load his offensive responsibility. "I like Phil a lot," he said. "I think he's one of the best coaches in the game. He cares about the players, but he also knows how to separate himself from them, too, which is very important.

"What I objected to was Phil's insistence to diversify the offense. Each year he stressed that more and more. I didn't like it, because it put more pressure on me to produce at crunch time after being out of rhythm most of the game."

Jordan conveyed his disapproval for Jackson's offense and disinterest in playing the regular season to GM Jerry Krause two weeks before training camp was to open. A decision to retire had been made, he declared. Krause asked him to keep his mind open a little bit longer until he met with Jackson. "If Phil could have come up with something, I might have stayed," Jordan said. "If I could have sat for a large portion of the regular season, the way Bill Cartwright did, I would have stayed. But Phil couldn't come with a solution or a reason why I should stay."

"Let's face it, if I was allowed to sit out until a month before the playoffs, something like that, the media would have been all over me. They would have said, 'Who does he think he is? He thinks he's above the game. He's not a team player! He's selfish!' All those thing.

"I didn't want to make any demands about getting the ball, because it would have been perceived as being selfish. I wanted an alternative. "This wasn't about winning another scoring title. I'll admit I was selfish my first few years, but not after that. This was about the perception of fans and the media as my average diminished each year. They'd see it as me slipping when it wasn't true. I could've averaged 32-33 a game for the next four years. The last thing I wanted was to defend myself to the media night after night."

CLEARLY, the media played an influential part in Jordan's retirement. He found out, much to his dismay and disgust, that when you attain his
echelon of celebrity, people look to tear you down. It happens in sports, entertainment, politics, all walks of high visibility.

"They can't find fault in what you do for a living, so they look for warts and weaknesses in your private life," Jordan said, still angry. "The media came after me the last couple years because they couldn't write anything bad about my play. They couldn't write any longer I was a poor shooter. They couldn't write anymore I didn't make my teammates better. They couldn't write I wasn't a winner. So they harped on my gambling. "Meanwhile, I did nothing wrong, nothing that others in basketball [owners, coaches, other high-profile players, members of the media weren't doing and haven't been doing on golf courses and casinos for years."

"When my father disappeared, it was so irresponsible, so insensitive to link my father with my gambling," he went on. Why would he be a target just because I've lost big money? I've always paid my debts. Nobody had any evidence to support such speculation, but it didn't stop them from jumping to conclusions. "That was so unfair to my mother, my sisters and my brothers. Yet when it came out that his death had nothing to do with me, nobody took the time or used the same power they'd abused to apologize. They till haven't apologized."

HERE were two stories on the wire the day I arrived in Orlando. Shaquille O'Neal and Reggie Miller had been quoted saying Dream Team II was better than the original entity; and Celtic VP M.L. Carr aid he'd give the Bulls a No. 1 pick if allowed to talk to Jordan about joining Boston. Both irrational remarks drew characteristic responses from Jordan, his competitive juices boiling.

"Those guys are on the right team, because they're definitely dreaming," he said. "Not only was Dream Team I better, but we could beat them right now. The only player from our squad who wouldn't be able to contribute is Larry Bird. I'm in shape. Maglc's still playing games. Charles [Barkley] might need a little rehab on his back. The rest are still in their prime. If somebody could put it together for charity us against them that's one game I'd come out of retirement to play.

As far Carr is concerned Jordan thinks he's a loon.

"Why would I play for the Celtics?" he said. "If I were going to come back I'd play for the Bulls not a team I took such pleasure in beating. Why would I play for the Celts? Dominique is going to look strange enough in green."

JORDAN said one of the things he enjoys most about baseball is sitting around for an hour or more after the game discussing everything that had happened with his teammates (unlike in basketball when the players split quickly).

He loves the camaraderie and he loves talking baseball now that he is following it closely. However based on my four-hour visit with him he loves to talk basketball even more. He remains wired into the league and the Bulls.

Players such as Penny Hardaway and Shaq coache such as George Karl and Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf stay in constant touch whether it's to share information or to seek his opinion.

Reinsdorf for instance told him less than a month ago he almost resigned Grant. The owner had requested to talk with his unrestricted free agent without his agent present to discuss his future. At the meetng Reinsdorf asked Grant to come up with a figure he wanted and he d do the same. When they compared numbers the owner's was a few hundred thousand dollars less.

[Fatal9]

Reinsdorf said he'd make up the difference. He signed an agreement for $4M per for five and gave it to Grant when he left the office.

When Grant notified his agent Jimmy Sexton what had transpired he went berserk. Sexton also represents Pippen and is still seething at Krause pertaining to Grant's negotiations and for keeping him in the dark about Scottie's near-trade to Seattle for Shawn Kemp.

Both Karl and most recently Heat owner Billy Cunningham have also contacted Jordan regarding Pippen's talent proclivities and just compensation).

"I told Billy he's worth two good players" Jordan said. "Rice and Miner would be fair but that he shouldn't give up Seikaly. He's one of the few centers who plays inside and his game would complement Scottie's."

"Had Scottie gone to Seattle it would've been a great deal for the Sonics.
He would've made their players better. Kemp doesn't do that."

AFTER three hours with Jordan the only untouched subject was his comeback. Is he remotely considering a return to the sport he dominated for the majority of his nine NBA seasons? Since Day 1 I've maintained he wouldn't want to endure the torture of getting back into pro basketball shape.

Moreover his personality wouldn't permit him to be any less than the player he was when he left. That would be virtually impossible I submit after a year's layoff. Even for His Airness.

"You've got to be kidding," he responded. "Give me two weeks to work out and I could come back and average 32 a game. No question! Think about it that's only eight point quarter. If I only score two in one quarter that only means getting 14 in another."

It's all just a mental thing. Physically I'd have no problems. I wasn't hurting when I left and I m not hurting now.

Well then what's preventing Jordan from reversing professions before age becomes an impervious barrier?

"I can't think of anything that would make me come back," Jordan said. "If I'm through with baseball after a full year and I'm bored I can play golf. Money I've got 10-year deals with most of my sponsors and I m only in the second or third year with most of them."

I've thought about it a lot he added convincingly and I can't come up with a single reason to change my mind.

"Even if I did my pride would stop me. I'd never want the media to think they were right. Most of em predicted I'd be back. Well I won't. I still love the actual game but hate many aspects surrounding it. I'll play in charity and pickup games but I'll never play organized ball again."

[Fatal9]

I always thought Jordan's first retirement in part was to boost his legacy with what he figured would be a collapse of the Bulls team. Lot of people thought that's what would happen, maybe him too, and he didn't do them a favor by doing it right before the season started. Maybe he figures Bulls struggle because in his mind he seems to think they were nothing without him, and then he comes back mid-season (he doesn't seem opposed to joining mid-season in '94) but the success of the Bulls that year kept him away. Sounds really bitter with Scottie and Horace, taking little mini shots at Scottie (doesn't really need to bring up the game 3 incident, or give him much credit for what he did).

It was part being sick of media, partly to play baseball and maybe most of all an attempt to expose his teammates (but this failed).

[Solid Snake]

Interesting read. Jordan needs to write an autobiography.

[dd24]

That was a great post. There's some cool stuff in that article. It's fun to remember some of those story lines from back in the day.

[Harison]

Good insights

Shaquille O'Neal and Reggie Miller had been quoted saying Dream Team II was better than the original.

Jordan: "Those guys are on the right team, because they're definitely dreaming," he said. "Not only was Dream Team I better, but we could beat them right now. The only player from our squad who wouldn't be able to contribute is Larry Bird. I'm in shape. Magic's still playing games. Charles [Barkley] might need a little rehab on his back. The rest are still in their prime. If somebody could put it together for charity us against them that's one game I'd come out of retirement to play.

Classic Jordan

[lefthook00]

Haha what a f*cking prick. I love it.

[Samurai Swoosh]

It was part being sick of media, partly to play baseball and maybe most of all an attempt to expose his teammates (but this failed).

That's the only thing you got out of this interview? Was your agenda the whole time for another "let's elevate Pip to diminish Jordan" sort of things you and Roundball Rock are known for notoriously?

Jordan was right though, even about Pippen pouting at the end of game 3.

And Jordan always was bailing them out in crunch time aka winning time aka Jordan time.

If you grew up watching the Bulls, you'd known Pippen wasn't a very good finisher late in games. And he always missed critical free-throws late in games.

None of what Jordan said here was a lie other than him never coming back to basketball. Which proved to be true.

Pippen and the Bulls didn't win anything w/o Jordan. They lost in the 2nd round. Is their some sort of alternative universe award for making it to the 2nd round? You guys act like Pippen carried the Bulls to a title. That '94 roster was an even better roster (outside of Jordan) then they were in '91, '92, and '93. You do realize this right?

What he proved was true ... Pippen's a great player, but he's not the end of game player and killer with the WILL POWER to win needed to advance to the big show.

And he was right, Pippen played best in the first half of the 1994 season, and didn't quite carry the load as well the rest of the year.

Hell in 1995, Pippen and BJ Armstrong were practically begging MJ to come back. So maybe it was a stroke to this guy's ego to have his player's acknowledge they need him in by asking him back.

But don't act like he just crapped all over Pippen. Trying to make MJ out to be evil, like you and RR always do. Did you miss the part where he said if Pippen was traded to the Heat the Bulls would deserve at least 2 good players in return?

Did you miss the part where he said Scottie is a great player who makes his teammates better, and that if that Seattle deal went through for Kemp (which almost did) ... Pippen would instantly make Seattle better than they were because "he makes people better" something Kemp clearly doesn't.

Missed all the praise he gave Pippen too, heh?

The biggest kick out of the article I got was this man's confidence, competive desire, and loyalty.

Saying he'd practice for 2 weeks come out out and immedietly average 32 ppg.

Saying he'd be willing to get the squad's together right then at the challenge and face the 2nd Dream Team.

Saying he would never on earth considering joining the Celtics, showing his loyalty to the Bulls and his desire to compete against the best.

That's a legend right there. Ultimate competitive spirit.

[KenneBell]

If Kobe said the same things about Gasol and Odom this would be a 10 page thread.

It takes a special type of person to carry a team and win. They don't have to be psycho competitive like MJ but not everyone can do it.

[che guevara]

Good post. It's always interesting to hear what superstars really think, rather than the PC bullshit you see 99% of the time.

[gengiskhan]

If Kobe said the same things about Gasol and Odom this would be a 10 page thread.

It takes a special type of person to carry a team and win. They don't have to be psycho competitive like MJ but not everyone can do it.

dumb ass

Kobe needs big men like Gasol & Odom to carry his bum knees & poor shot selection. MJ carried Grant & that garbage Cartwright for 3 rings.

[97 bulls]

That's the only thing you got out of this interview? Was your agenda the whole time for another "let's elevate Pip to diminish Jordan" sort of things you and Roundball Rock are known for notoriously?

Jordan was right though, even about Pippen pouting at the end of game 3.

And Jordan always was bailing them out in crunch time aka winning time aka Jordan time.

If you grew up watching the Bulls, you'd known Pippen wasn't a very good finisher late in games. And he always missed critical free-throws late in games.

None of what Jordan said here was a lie other than him never coming back to basketball. Which proved to be true.

Pippen and the Bulls didn't win anything w/o Jordan. They lost in the 2nd round. Is their some sort of alternative universe award for making it to the 2nd round? You guys act like Pippen carried the Bulls to a title. That '94 roster was an even better roster (outside of Jordan) then they were in '91, '92, and '93. You do realize this right?

What he proved was true ... Pippen's a great player, but he's not the end of game player and killer with the WILL POWER to win needed to advance to the big show.

And he was right, Pippen played best in the first half of the 1994 season, and didn't quite carry the load as well the rest of the year.

Hell in 1995, Pippen and BJ Armstrong were practically begging MJ to come back. So maybe it was a stroke to this guy's ego to have his player's acknowledge they need him in by asking him back.

But don't act like he just crapped all over Pippen. Trying to make MJ out to be evil, like you and RR always do. Did you miss the part where he said if Pippen was traded to the Heat the Bulls would deserve at least 2 good players in return?

Did you miss the part where he said Scottie is a great player who makes his teammates better, and that if that Seattle deal went through for Kemp (which almost did) ... Pippen would instantly make Seattle better than they were because "he makes people better" something Kemp clearly doesn't.

Missed all the praise he gave Pippen too, heh?

The biggest kick out of the article I got was this man's confidence, competive desire, and loyalty.

Saying he'd practice for 2 weeks come out out and immedietly average 32 ppg.

Saying he'd be willing to get the squad's together right then at the challenge and face the 2nd Dream Team.

Saying he would never on earth considering joining the Celtics, showing his loyalty to the Bulls and his desire to compete against the best.

That's a legend right there. Ultimate competitive spirit.

I see what your saying swoosh, but it goes both ways. You sound like a kobe fan when they say jordan didn't win in his first few years. Jordan obviously didn't take over games enough for his team to win early in his career. Otherwise, he would've won earlier. And I know youe reply will be he didn't have a good enough team. And I honestly agree. But don't hold the same thing against pippen. He hit big shots, he got clutch steals etc.

And don't try to even begin to say that kukoc was equal to pippen. And a rookie kukoc no less.

[97 bulls]

Honestly, it sounds like he retired to prove a point. The point that the bulls would suck without him. And he was kinda outdone when they still stayed competitive.

I think this was a lesson for jordan and pippen. Pippen wanted the limelight and got it. And realized how hard it was to be jordan. But I also feel 94 humbled jordan too. Im sure he thought they'd be at best a 500 team. And at best get swept out of the first round. And when it didn't happen, jordan realized that maybe the squad he had was pretty damn good.

And this is why I think they took the bulls to new levels from 96-98. They both realized they needed each other. And both were important to the others success.

[iamgine]

When you take the supposed GOAT out of a team and replace him with Pete freakin Myers, you expect a big drop-off. Instead, the Bulls won 55 games and just barely missed the conference finals. I don't know if any other championship team could have done that.

[Samurai Swoosh]

You sound like a kobe fan when they say jordan didn't win in his first few years..

What are you even talking about?