Peak for peak, LBJ vs MJ

[Celtics 1825]

2013 LeBron was an absolute beast. Unstoppable.

[TheCorporation]

2013 LeBron was an absolute beast. Unstoppable.

His reg season peak was literally better than the best Jordan ever had

But 3ball glosses over it

[3ball]

so 2013 is LeBron's playoff peak or are you being retarded again?

You're the one that compared 91' MJ to 13' Bron

I simply showed that 91' was much better due to vastly better playoff and Finals performance

TRY again

Ok


Best Winning Playoffs

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.1 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 26.3 ppg.. 9.5 rpg.. 7.5 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.3 bpg

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.7 usg.. 127 ortg.. 60.0 ts.. 32.0 PER.. 0.333 ws/48.. 13.8 bpm
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 30.7 usg.. 118 ortg.. 58.5 ts.. 30.0 PER.. 0.274 ws/48.. 13.1 bpm


Best Winning Finals

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.2 ppg.... 6.6 rpg.. 11.4 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.8 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 125 ortg.. 61.2 ts.. 29.4 GmSc
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 29.7 ppg.. 11.3 rpg.... 8.9 apg.. 4.4 tov.. 2.6 spg.. 2.3 bpg.. 114 ortg.. 56.2 ts.. 26.5 GmSc


Playoff stats for first 3 championships:

[COLOR="black"]JORDAN 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.7 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER[/COLOR]
[COLOR="black"]LEBRON 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 27.2 ppg.. 9.2 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER[/COLOR]

(MJ was required to score nearly 7 more points with equal assists and efficiency.. )


Career Playoffs

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.5 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 bpg
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 28.9 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.3 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 1.0 bpg

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.6 usg.. 118 ortg.. 56.8 ts.. 28.6 PER.. 0.255 ws/48.. 10.1 bpm
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.2 usg.. 116 ortg.. 57.9 ts.. 28.3 PER.. 0.244 ws/48.. 11.1 bpm



How is mj not better..
.

[SpaceJam2]

You're the one that compared 91' MJ to 13' Bron

I simply showed that 91' was much better due to vastly better playoff and Finals performance



Ok


Best Winning Playoffs

Jordan 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.1 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg
Lebron 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 26.3 ppg.. 9.5 rpg.. 7.5 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.3 bpg

Jordan 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.7 usg.. 127 ortg.. 60.0 ts.. 32.0 PER.. 0.333 ws/48.. 13.8 bpm
Lebron 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 30.7 usg.. 118 ortg.. 58.5 ts.. 30.0 PER.. 0.274 ws/48.. 13.1 bpm


Best Winning Finals

Jordan 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.2 ppg.... 6.6 rpg.. 11.4 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.8 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 125 ortg.. 61.2 ts.. 29.4 GmSc
Lebron 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 29.7 ppg.. 11.3 rpg.... 8.9 apg.. 4.4 tov.. 2.6 spg.. 2.3 bpg.. 114 ortg.. 56.2 ts.. 26.5 GmSc


Playoff stats for first 3 championships:

[COLOR="black"]Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.7 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER[/COLOR]
[COLOR="black"]Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 27.2 ppg.. 9.2 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER[/COLOR]

(MJ was required to score nearly 7 more points with equal assists and efficiency.. )


Career Playoffs

Jordan:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.5 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 bpg
Lebron:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 28.9 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.3 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 1.0 bpg

Jordan:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.6 usg.. 118 ortg.. 56.8 ts.. 28.6 PER.. 0.255 ws/48.. 10.1 bpm
Lebron:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.2 usg.. 116 ortg.. 57.9 ts.. 28.3 PER.. 0.244 ws/48.. 11.1 bpm



How is mj not better..
.

Post 2018...Duh

[3ball]

Post 2018...Duh

Regarding losing playoff runs:

Lebron's 2018 is equal to MJ's 1989 or 1990 statistically, but both fall well short of 2009

Lebron's upset loss as a huge +550 favorite in 2009 (shit brand of ball, stat-padding ball) had record PER and advanced stats for any losing playoff run

But MJ's 1986 set the record for raw stats, except he didn't lose as the favorite like 09' bron...

That's why I just posted their career playoff stats and then singled out their winning runs
.

[SpaceJam2]

Regarding losing playoff runs:

Lebron's 2018 is equal to MJ's 1989 or 1990 statistically, but both fall well short of 2009

Lebron's upset loss as a huge +550 favorite in 2009 (shit brand of ball, stat-padding ball) had record PER and advanced stats for any losing playoff run

But MJ's 1986 set the record for raw stats, except he didn't lose as the favorite like 09' bron...

That's why I just posted their career playoff stats and then singled out their winning runs
.

What kind of guerrilla warfare math is this?

[3ball]

What kind of guerrilla warfare math is this?

I posted all the stats for you to see

Any objective assessment shows MJ was better

He was better during winning runs, for his career, and he had the best raw stats of a losing run.. lebron only has advanced stats for a losing run in his favor - everything else is mj
.

[SpaceJam2]

I posted all the stats for you to see

Any objective assessment shows MJ was better

He was better during winning runs, for his career, and he had the best raw stats of a losing run.. lebron only has advanced stats for a losing run in his favor - everything else is mj
.

So just to flip the script LeBron had tougher opponents then, yes?

MJ could "win with less" while LeBron "lost with more" ?

Just playing devil's advocate here because 2004-2010 Cavs were a shitshow and you know it.

[Young X]

Lebron in 2013 was definitely close to MJ. You guys are forgetting how scary he was.

[3ball]

Lebron in 2013 was definitely close to MJ. You guys are forgetting [COLOR="Navy"]how scary he was[/COLOR].

He wasn't that good in the playoffs and was bad in the Finals

His 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, so he needed Ray Allen to force game 7..

he won those Finals being a net negative and averaging only 25 on 44%, including 16 on 39% thru 3 games (befuddled by the Spurs' "let him shoot" strategy) and the aforementioned 23 on 43 thru 6 (thus needing Ray to see a game 7)

I compared lebron's 13 run to mj' 91' run earlier itt and it doesn't compare at all - 13' and 91' are considered both players' banner year

[MrFonzworth]

Interesting question, let's take one Finals run from both players. Count how many stats said players lead BOTH Finals teams, the player with the higher number has the better peak.

[3ball]

So just to flip the script LeBron had tougher opponents then, yes?

MJ could "win with less" while LeBron "lost with more" ?

Just playing devil's advocate here because 2004-2010 Cavs were a shitshow and you know it.

Dwight Howard's Magic is great comp?

The East was shit with everyone backpacking weak casts to the Finals (AI, Kidd, Dwight, Lebron).. So lebron gets knocked for failing to backpack it in 09/10 despite being a heavy favorite both years, and ceding those carry-jobs to Dwight and an injured, 50-win Celtics team

Also, you say the Cavs were a shit show.. so what were the bulls from 85-90?.. lebron was putting up WORSE stats than 80's MJ, but winning way more.. i.e. Lebron's 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins and 1 seed, while mj's 33/8/8 yielded 47 and 6 seed... MJ's 6 seed executes upsets in every round and takes the champs 6 games, while lebron gets upset by a tranny

You can't make this shit up.. you guys just don't realize how weak mj's cast was and how tough his comp was... 35/6/6/dpoy yielded 50 wins in 88', while 28/8/7 gets lebron 66 and favorite to win the Finals.. 37/5/5 yielded 42 wins in 87'... MJ's 80's casts were worse than any cast lebron ever had..

Heck, lebron entered the league with a 2-time all-star center on his team and a 14/10 pf... then he added a 1st team all-nba defender and a great defensive coach to help him make that run in 07 (where his playoff stats were dogshit)... Then he adds an all-nba defender (varejao), another all-star (mo), Shaq (all-star MVP in 09' and 4th option for Bron in 10:), and 2-time all-star Jamison.. otoh, MJ's teams had ZERO ACCOLADES until 90'... Let that sink in.. he had worse casts and needed better stats to win than bron

[SpaceJam2]

Interesting question, let's take one Finals run from both players. Count how many stats said players lead BOTH Finals teams, the player with the higher number has the better peak.

Yikes


R.I.P. MJ

Does it count for extra cherry on top if the team that was defeated previously won 73-games?

[3ball]

Count how many stats said players lead BOTH Finals teams, the player with the higher number has the better peak.

Lebron had an equal scoring partner and closer in 16'

That doesn't compare to what MJ had to do (10-20 more than 2nd option to win all Finals - so a 1-man show on offense, the team closer, and Kawhi on defense)

Let's take one Finals run from both players.

Playoffs

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.1 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 26.3 ppg.. 9.5 rpg.. 7.5 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.3 bpg

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.7 usg.. 127 ortg.. 60.0 ts.. 32.0 PER.. 0.333 ws/48.. 13.8 bpm
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 30.7 usg.. 118 ortg.. 58.5 ts.. 30.0 PER.. 0.274 ws/48.. 13.1 bpm


Finals

JORDAN 91':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.2 ppg.... 6.6 rpg.. 11.4 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.8 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 125 ortg.. 61.2 ts.. 29.4 GmSc
LEBRON 16':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 29.7 ppg.. 11.3 rpg.... 8.9 apg.. 4.4 tov.. 2.6 spg.. 2.3 bpg.. 114 ortg.. 56.2 ts.. 26.5 GmSc



Who's stats are better Fonzworth

[SpaceJam2]

Wait, this was MJ's "best ever" which you posted:'

Jordan 91':. 31.2 ppg.... 6.6 rpg.. 11.4 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.8 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 125 ortg.. 61.2 ts.. 29.4 GmSc .. Usage...31.9

LeBron 18':. 33.6 ppg....12.0 rpg .. 10.0 apg.. 4.2 tov.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 126 ortg.. 63% ts.. 29.6 GmSc .. Usage 31.6

So wait a gosh darn minute here...LeBron decimates Jordan peak for peak in a Finals series, too?! What have you done to yourself?

'91 MJ vs '18 LBJ

LBJ leads in: points, rebounds, ORtg, TS%, GmSc, and Usage
MJ leads in: assists, steals, blocks



What have you just done to yourself?