Bill Russell: Sam Jones is better then Scottie Pippen?

[L.Kizzle]

I was watching an NBA special on William Felton Russell last night and he was talking about his teammates.


An interesting point was him comparing John Havlicek, Sam Jones and Scottie Pippen. He said Scottie Pippen is one of the greatest to ever play but his two guys (Jones and Havlicek) were better then Pippen.


Some other Bill Russell comments, He says they wouldn't be able to stop Michael Jordan.


So what do y'all think about that, Pippen vs. Jones?

[hotsizzle]

Bulls:"Russell isnt even better than Pippen"

[Jimmy2k8]

Bulls: Russell is an idiot. he isn't any better than Scottie pippen.

[Poseidon]

IF Bill Russell was playing today.....he'd be no better than Ben Wallace or Marcus Camby.

Scottie Pippen is a better overall player than Russell or any of his other overrated Celtics teammates from the 60's.

[Jimmy2k8]

^Poseidon= BULLS.

[L.Kizzle]

IF Bill Russell was playing today.....he'd be no better than Ben Wallace or Marcus Camby.

Scottie Pippen is a better overall player than Russell or any of his other overrated Celtics teammates from the 60's.

Topic has nothin' to do with Bill Russell but Jones vs. Pippen

[Los Angeles]

Seriously though, I could care less what Bill Russell has to say...Pippen is the most overlooked/under-appreciated superstar to ever play this game it seems, Russell isn't helping his cause any.

Pippen > Jones

[MaxFly]

He is around top 15 all-time.

First, let me say that I disagree with Russell... Scottie Pippen is ridiculously underrated and was a better player than Sam Jones.

However, top 15 all-time? Lets please not try to make up for Pippen being underrated all in one post. Perhaps top 30, but not top 15.

[Jimmy2k8]

^ Jimmy2k8 = Make It Rain = Asster

Poseidon = Poseidon

BULLS = BULLS

Jimmy2k8 is one poster and only one poster. BULLS is made up of alternate accounts and accounts that rhyme with BULLS.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Sam Jones and Scottie Pippen?

You got to be kinding me Russell.

Pippen >>> Jones

[Jimmy2k8]

Jimmy2k8 is Make It Rain, who is also Asster, and probably 15 other accounts.

BULLS has one account only...BULLS.

I require proof since you think I have 100 billion accounts.

[MaxFly]

Incidentally, this is an example of why, while I respect the opinions of NBA legends, I don't put all that much weight on them.

[MaxFly]

ISH, known for their retarded rankings(Kobe at #24, Malone at #17), has Pippen at #26. From that alone alone you can conclude that Pippen is better than at least 10 players listed above him.


Players listed ahead of Pippen:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Jerry West
12. Julius Erving
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. George Mikan
19. David Robinson
20. Isiah Thomas
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. Bob Cousy
24. Kobe Bryant
25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen


^^ The bolded are all unquestionably worse than Pippen. This puts Pippen at #16 all-time. Now I admit that I really can't seem to slip him into the #15 spot. That's a pretty damn talented group. So for right now, it looks like Pippen is a top 16 player of all-time.

When we concoct these all time rankings, we take players' legacies into account as well as how good they are flat out. It's not simply a measure of who the best player is... it's a mixture of legacy and skill, that's why you will see an 11 time NBA champion over Scottie Pippen, regardless of which era he played in.

[MaxFly]

Legacy is important, but Robert Horry and his 7 rings will never compare to Michael Redd and his zero.

Problem... Robert Horry has never lead a team to a championship nor has be been all that important a piece with the exception of 1 or 2 championship runs... the fact that he has 7 rings is counterbalanced by his small roles.

Russell's 11 rings are impressive, but nowhere near as impressive as Malone's multiple trips to the Finals. Personally, I don't give a damn about skill. I will hardly ever use Kobe's skill level to justify his ranking at top 8 all-time. All-time rankings are based on greatness, and greatness only. Skilled players like Dirk don't deserve to be ranked ahead of guys like Russell who couldn't score to save his life.


Consider today's Iverson's to be the Elgin Baylor in the old days. He won nothing...Absolutely nothing. He went to the Finals many times, but he lost. Who gives a damn if he never won? Yet he is considered top 15 all-time. Why? He did nothing at all to separate himself from Iverson.

Looks at user title... realizes he's wasting his time.

[MaxFly]

Where do you rank Russell all-time?

Top 10... Perhaps 7...

Look, I realize that Russell played on a loaded team... I've made the argument myself more than once, but you can't deny that he was the driving force for those 11 championships in 13 years, and you can't dismiss that feat historically... 11 championships in 13 years as the leader of a team... that's a legacy...