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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    [QUOTE]After the championship victory, Douglas purchased jackets for the team celebrating the triumph. The jacket read: "N.Y. Rens Colored World Champions." When Isaacs saw the inscription, he asked to borrow a razor blade from Douglas and then proceeded to meticulously remove the word "Colored" from the jacket. Douglas responded, "You're ruining the jacket."

  2. #32
    Scott Hastings Fan G.O.A.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by jlauber
    Just a wonderful story. Can't wait for the Trotters-Lakers.
    I actually chose to cover their rivalry in a section about the Lakers dynasty. I decieded to make the Rens the stars of this section because they are sort of that bridge from the 1910's to the 1940's. Basketball's adolescence that reached maturity with an integrated NBA in 1950.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Great stuff. Outstanding? I learned a lot and I already knew a good piece of it.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    What year was it that Robinson played in MLB? It was after 1950, right?

  5. #35
    ISH's Negro Historian L.Kizzle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by magnax1
    What year was it that Robinson played in MLB? It was after 1950, right?
    1947

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
    I actually chose to cover their rivalry in a section about the Lakers dynasty. I decieded to make the Rens the stars of this section because they are sort of that bridge from the 1910's to the 1940's. Basketball's adolescence that reached maturity with an integrated NBA in 1950.
    I can't wait for your book!

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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by jlip
    It's very complicated, but I would suggest that you employ whatever label you're comfortable using. I also would imagine that Douglas didn't prefer the term "African American" because race is and has been defined much differently in the West Indies than in the U.S.
    Hey Jlip I do that same here in NYC. I agree with you and will get a little bit more into the details.

    Douglass's roots actually were in Africa. He wasn't native American by any stretch of the imagination. Like many in the West Indies his DNA is more than likely 80% African. And nobody on any so-called West Indian islands looked like Robert Douglas 500 years ago. His culture has taught him that he is West Indian and that he doesn't share a common history with Blacks on the continent of America - and life is very different on the islands. So to distinguish he will say he has a West Indian background. African American is more inclusive (North America, Central, Carriean Islands and South America) and less distinctive. Blacks will usually mean North American African-Americans. Douglas children will likely call themselves Black unless they were raised in the West Indies. So GOAT African American is the most inclusive term.

    Africa identifies the lineage while American is the cultural distinction.

  8. #38
    Scott Hastings Fan G.O.A.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointguard
    Hey Jlip I do that same here in NYC. I agree with you and will get a little bit more into the details.

    Douglass's roots actually were in Africa. He wasn't native American by any stretch of the imagination. Like many in the West Indies his DNA is more than likely 80% African. And nobody on any so-called West Indian islands looked like Robert Douglas 500 years ago. His culture has taught him that he is West Indian and that he doesn't share a common history with Blacks on the continent of America - and life is very different on the islands. So to distinguish he will say he has a West Indian background. African American is more inclusive (North America, Central, Carriean Islands and South America) and less distinctive. Blacks will usually mean North American African-Americans. Douglas children will likely call themselves Black unless they were raised in the West Indies. So GOAT African American is the most inclusive term.

    Africa identifies the lineage while American is the cultural distinction.
    I promise I'm not starting a stupid conversation here, but why if African American is the most inclusive term, then why is "White" the preferred term for European, Eurasian and Australian Americans etc?

    Do you think I should continue to use "Black" primarily or "African American? Or do you like Jlip think both are fine and I should use what I am comfortable with?

    Thanks for your response and I'd be curious to see what you think i may have left out of this story.

  9. #39
    Scott Hastings Fan G.O.A.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    [FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]PART FIVE[/FONT]


    [FONT="Palatino Linotype"]The following season the Rens returned to the World Professional Basketball Tournament, so did the Globetrotters. Again the tournament committee neglected to put the two powers on opposite sides of the bracket and again both teams met early in the tournament; this time in the quarterfinals. Each had doubled up their opening round opponent and another thrilling game came down to the Final seconds. With the Rens up by one and time ticking away, Duke Cumberland hurled a half court shot that hit the bottom of the net and propelled Harlem to the semifinals with a 37-36 win. The Globetrotters would go on to win the tournament, defeating the Chicago Bruins in the Finals. The Rens spent the next five or six years, during WWII, slowly fading from the dominant days, they returned to the semi-finals of the World Pro Basketball Tournament in 1944 and 1945 but were never able to repeat as Champions. Still their impact was felt dramatically throughout the basketball world. They had won the Final “Colored Basketball World’s Championship” in 1925 and then first World Professional Basketball Tournament in 1939 and had dominated in-between. Being the best basketball team in the world for more than a decade and relevant for two more is impressive enough, but consider the following, and the achievements of the Rens are only exceeded in extraordinariness by the lack of attention they’ve received in the sixty years plus since they played their final game:

     The Rens would finish playing their games with the Celtics and the Celtics would go back to their hotel eat room service or in the hotel restaurant and get a good night’s sleep before heading home or to their next stop. The Rens, being all-black, had no such luxury. They would finish the games, board their buses, have meals brought to them which they’d eat on the bus and then drive until they found a town with a hotel that would let them stay. Tarzan Cooper remembers: "It seems like I spent my whole life on the road…When I look back on my playing days, all I see is that old bus. It was a rough ride in those days. Blacks couldn't stay in most hotels, and sometimes we had to drive 400 miles to find a hotel."
     At five separate games, race riots broke out according to Richard Lapchick, historian and son of former Original Celtics center and Knicks coach Joe Lapchick. Th people wanted to see the black teams play the white teams, but fairness was not at the top of their list of wants, if tensions got too high, riot squads had to be brought in. Eric Illedge, a long time road manager for the team recalled carrying a pistol with him courtside and Fat Jenkins kept a knife in his sock during games just in case, he never had to use it, but he brandished it on multiple occasions.
     Almost all of the officials and most of the fans were white; the Rens never got the benefit of the doubt on calls and never played to a true “home-court” advantage against All-White teams. There were times when they had to leave the game before it was over because the crowd was getting hostile, or times when they were told to lose a game to prevent a “scene” from occurring.

    By the end of the 1940’s Professional Basketball was reaching new heights, even if no one knew it yet. Throughout the decade black players had integrated previously all-white leagues here and there, but nothing stuck. Then prior to the 1946-1947 season the NBL admitted Dolly King, Pops Gates, Willie King and Bill Farrow and Major League Baseball was making even bigger headlines as Jackie Robinson had been playing for the Brooklyn Dodgers during the 1947 baseball season. Encouraged by these developments and knowing that the BAA was down to seven teams, newly hired Knicks coach Lapchick petitioned to have the Rens added as the eight member of the new league. The NBL and its president Ike Duffy had already declined the Rens admittance to their league despite adding the black players the year before, but Lapchick hoped the league’s owners would see this as an opportunity to deliver a blow to their rival league. Smilin’ Bob Douglas recalls his efforts.

    "It was in the fall of the year that Jackie Robinson broke into major league baseball with the Brooklyn Dodgers, I'll never forget that day as long as I live. I bought a brand new Studebaker and drove down to Philadelphia in style. When I arrived, they invited me to sit in on their discussion before they voted. I remember that at one point an Italian fellow from Providence stood up and said the league could get along fine without us. Then Joe Lapchick, who was with the Knickerbockers, got up in front of his boss, Ned Irish, and said, 'I may lose my job for saying this, but I'd play against the Rens any goddam day. To me they're the best."
    However the motion failed and the Rens were still a team without a league, twenty five years after the ABL had first denied them admittance, the NBL and BAA had vociferously seconded the motion. Distraught by the lack of progress and the dwindling interest and competitiveness of the team, Douglass turned control of the Rens over to Illedge in 1948. In December of that year the NBL had second thoughts and when the Detroit Vagabond Kings folded the runs were offered a spot as the first all-black professional team. Perhaps fittingly though, the deck was stacked absurdly against them. Not only did they have to move their from Harlem to Dayton to join the league, they also had to inherit the Kings dismal 2-17 record. To make matters worse, Dayton was excited about having an all-black basketball team. They rarely showed, sometimes as few as a couple hundred people attended the Rens games. The Rens never had a chance, they finished in last place and after the season the leagues completed a merger and the Rens were not one of the teams coming along. Douglas rented the Rens to rival Abe Saperstein, but it was not a successful venture and the two men, once rivals agreed it was time to pull the plug on the Rens and they folded just before 1950, the NBA’s first official season. Charles Cooper reflects on the Rens, their demise and his time with the team.

    “Progress was what finally killed the Rens. Jobs were coming up for blacks, and we had to think of our futures. The year after we won the world championship, I retired and took a job painting houses for $50 a week, year round. Sometimes I'd find myself leaning against that ladder, missing those days when we were flying high. But there was always the road, and I surely never did miss that. Still, it wasn't all bad. Why, I suppose if I could just run like those young fellows out there now, I'd hop right back on that bus and head for the open road again.”
    [/FONT]

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    G.O.A.T

    Once again you have provided one of the best threads ever on ISH. I will be honest with you and everyone else here. When it comes to major team sport's history, I have very little knowledge of any of them before 1960, except baseball (long time Strat-O-Matic gamer BTW.)

    Furthermore, aside from hearing Kareem speaking about his book on the subject, I had never even heard of the Rens before.

    It is interesting, but IMHO, most fans just take so many things for granted. The vast majority of sport's fans were not around when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball. And I suspect that many today just shrug it off. I realize that racism still exists today, and it probably always will (and BTW...there are those in all races that are racist.) But, from my limited observations, our society has come to deplore racism, and only a very small percentage practice it, if for no other reason than it is not economically feasible to be a racist (e.g. a smart businessman is not going to hire a far less qualified person of a particular race, over another, that is much more qualified.)

    And it is not my intent to argue any politics or social issues here, either...so please, let's not ruin this topic. I only bring it up, because, the facts remain, that the great Blacks athletes of the first half of the 1900's were never given an opportunity to prove themselves. And even when they were allowed to play against White teams, everything was stacked against them. As much as I hate to say it, it certainly appears as though the White fan base wanted to 'prove" that their white team's could beat the Black team's.

    I was very fortunate. I grew up in the 50's and 60's, in a nearly all white community, but my parents taught me to judge each individual on their actions, and not by their color or religion. And, as most all of you probably know by now...I idolized Wilt, Mays, Alcindor, even OJ (as well as Starr, West, Maravich, Mantle, and while I hated Koufax, I respected him as much as any athlete I have ever known.) Here again, I'll be honest...I NEVER looked at these great athletes as Black or white (sure, you I noticed their skin color...but I never gave it a second thought.)

    Now, as I have become much more interested sport's history, I have really come to appreciate these "pioneers" that paved the way for the game's that we have today.

    And while I idolized Wilt, I hated Russell. And, as I have pointed out, those that knew the both of them, would almost universally tell you that Wilt was far more accessible, and that Wilt treated almost everyone as a human being. BUT, the more research that I have done, the more that I have come to realize that the two of them grew up under completely different circumstances. While I'm sure that Wilt experienced some racism in his life, the fact was, he grew up in a mixed neighborhood, and was coddled by almost everyone, where ever he went. Russell did not have the same experiences. Nor did Oscar. And I'm sure that the vast majority of the great Black athletes of the 50's and 60's (and perhaps even later) had to overcome similar obstacles that Russell and Oscar did (maybe much worse, since they were not nearly as great as those two were.)

    Anyway, IMHO, integration in sport's obviously had a HUGE impact. And while it was inevitable, it still had to begin at some point. Of course, while we now generally applaud those pioneers, the tragedy is those that played before them. How many truly great athletes never had the opportunity to showcase their skills? I just can't imagine the frustration that they must have felt. To KNOW that they were among the best at their particular sport, and yet, to not have the opportunity to prove it. Or, when they were given an "opportunity", everything was stacked against them.

    Sorry for a long-winded post...but this topic is so important in the grand scheme of where we are at today. We NEED these historical perspectives. Similarly, those that laugh at watching the existing footage of the game of basketball in the 50's,...they need to realize that the game we see today, was a long and slow evolution. I have said it before, but there was no one point in NBA history, where we could say that, this is when the game became what it is today. What I mean is that, those that say that the greats of MY era (the 60's and early 70's) would have no chance of beating the team's of today...they can't pinpoint when the players of yesteryear could compete. Most everyone here would tell you that MJ and Hakeem, at their peaks, would still dominate today. BUT, they can't tell you when the players before them, would not have been able to compete. Why? Because the game has evolved so slowly.

    G.O.A.T once made a comment that has stuck for me (although I'm sure other's have said it as well)...the invention of the wheel was more important than the invention of the automobile. Because, without the wheel, there would be no cars. We need to embrace HISTORY here. And LEARN from it.

    BTW, I know that G.O.A.T included the Trotters-Lakers rivalry in his chapter on the Lakers Dynasty, but hopefully he can maybe provide some excerpts on that HISTORIC battle. If not, I recommend those here to take the time to research it.

    Finally...a big thanks to G.O.A.T!

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
    I promise I'm not starting a stupid conversation here, but why if African American is the most inclusive term, then why is "White" the preferred term for European, Eurasian and Australian Americans etc?

    Do you think I should continue to use "Black" primarily or "African American? Or do you like Jlip think both are fine and I should use what I am comfortable with?

    Thanks for your response and I'd be curious to see what you think i may have left out of this story.
    I think you are doing great. It is as thorough as you are going to get in this skeleton version. I will have to revisit notes to see if you left something worthy out. But no in that regards. I also love the fact that it is of great size - you hit the main points and it keeps moving.

    On the termininolgy thing, Black is an English word so it wouldn't be fair to call Brazilian African Americans that title. Yet the Brazilian descendants of Africa are the biggest population of African Americans in the western hemisphere and they speak Portugese. Some people in the West Indies speak Dutch, Spanish or French. Calling Douglas, Black wouldn't be appropiate eventhough he spoke English but because his cultural heritage placed more emphasis on lifestyle of being on an island. So African American is always appropiate and it is the most politically correct when writing in general and say if you didn't know the particulars as in Douglas's case. Africa being the lineage and America being the current situation.

    If you said Black American while referring to basketball in the time period you are talking about you are going to be 90% correct anyway.

    More feedback on the content of your stuff when I am off work.

  12. #42
    Made that high school varsity squad DwadeOverLebron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Maga_1
    Alicia Sacramone

    alicia sacramone=delicious

    this past yrs womens olympics gymnastics team was the goat

    sacramone, johnson, liukin = HOLY SMOKES!

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by DwadeOverLebron
    alicia sacramone=delicious

    this past yrs womens olympics gymnastics team was the goat

    sacramone, johnson, liukin = HOLY SMOKES!
    I'm sorry, but I just don't see what any of this has to do with the topic. It's not my thread, and normally I wouldn't care, but this topic deserves a little more respect than that.

  14. #44
    Scott Hastings Fan G.O.A.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    For those who missed it, part of it or don't want to sift through the thread.

    Here are the five parts re-posted in order.

    PART ONE:

    [FONT="Palatino Linotype"]The greatest stain on the record of the BAA/NBA in its early years is the lack of urgency and forward thinking in terms of handling segregation. The NBA finally broke its color barrier in 1950 when Boston selected Chuck Cooper from Duquesne in the second round of the college draft. Six rounds later Washington selected Earl Lloyd who would become the first black player to play in a NBA game. Before either had signed with their team, the Knicks had lured Sweetwater Clifton from the Harlem Globetrotters and signed him to a contract. It was the second year of operations as the NBA and fifth overall when you include the BAA history. There was never a policy against signing or drafting black players, but the indifference to the issue that characterized the leagues owners was common amongst White America at that time. It was not as if they didn

  15. #45
    Scott Hastings Fan G.O.A.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Fives: The Story of Integration in Pro Basketball

    PART TWO:

    [FONT="Palatino Linotype"] If the game was going to move towards professional sport, it would need an audience and they would need a reason to show up. So even before George Mikan was born, basketball

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