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Old 01-07-2008, 07:26 AM   #1
I'm Sorry, Guys!
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Default How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

I think as the season goes on, it's becoming quite apparent, from a pure individual talent standpoint, Lebron has had the most outstanding season with no signs of slowing down.

Now how many wins do the Cavs have to achieve in order for him to get the MVP?

The Cavs overall record is 17-17, but in the games LeBron has started and finished, the Cvas are currently 17-11. Now that .640 winning clip projects over to 52 wins over an 82-game schedule.

So with that in my mind, how many overall wins does Cleveland need knowing the Cavs are 0-6 without him? Are we going to penalize LeBron the player for his team's inability to win without him, even though the MVP award itself is an individual achievement?

I don't really want to get into the "well, the fact the Cavs are 0-6 w/o LeBron PROVES he's the MVP" argument. While I think it's a relevant point, but I think it unnecessarily simplifies the significance of the voting process for the award.

IMO, 29/7/7/2/1+ should speak the loudest volume as far as the winning a MVP award. That difference between that statline and the one's of his closest MVP competitors is so wide, that team record doesn't become that big of an issue this year. Now if Kobe or KG were truly having outstanding individual seasons in combination with excellent team results, then yes, award it to the guy with the better team record.

But other than that, what, am I supposed to agree with giving the MVP to KG for putting up 19/10/3.5 and having another player with relatively just as good as stats (Pierce- 21.5/5.5/5)? Nah, I can't buy what.

Kobe is in the same boat. The Lakers are 21-11, but they seem to play despite him most times. I personally can't think of three complete impact games Kobe's had all season. Not to mention his 26.7/6/5 on 43% shooting doesn't seem anymore 'MVP' than KG's 19/10/3. I'm sorry, I just can't buy Kobe when LeBron is doing 29/7/7 on a team that scores 12 less points a game than LA, plus is 17-11 in the games he's played in.

This thread also applies to other MVP candidates like Paul and Howard. Both are, IMO, more MVP worthy than KG and or Kobe, but it seems to be a national media push for the latter so that's why I mentioned them.

So back to the question at hand, how many wins does LeBron and his Cleveland need for him to get the award?

Last edited by I'm Sorry, Guys! : 01-07-2008 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

LeBron will get MVP as long as the Cavs win 41 games. KG has fallen off a little bit.

But he needs 41 wins and he needs the appearance that other Cavs suck.

I don't make the rules, just observe them.

Cavs sniff 50 wins he's a shoe-in.

Cavs miss playoffs he better have his PR people working overtime.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

It is between him and KG at this point. Lebron is the most dominant individual talent, but KG has transformed the entire mentality and effectiveness of a bad team. If Boston breaks high 60's-70 wins KG will win it no matter how impressive Lebrons stats are.

That said I have no doubt Lebron will collect at least a 1/2 dozen MVP awards down the road.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
LeBron will get MVP as long as the Cavs win 41 games. KG has fallen off a little bit.

But he needs 41 wins and he needs the appearance that other Cavs suck.

I don't make the rules, just observe them.

Cavs sniff 50 wins he's a shoe-in.

Cavs miss playoffs he better have his PR people working overtime.
41? Even I thinks that a bit too optimistic.

I say 45. If they win 45, that would mean the Cavs would be 45-31 in the games LeBron played in, assuming he doesn't miss anymore.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

I honestly think the Cavs need to be top 4 in the East for Bron to have ANY chance of grabbing the MVP...
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valliant13
It is between him and KG at this point. Lebron is the most dominant individual talent, but KG has transformed the entire mentality and effectiveness of a bad team. If Boston breaks high 60's-70 wins KG will win it no matter how impressive Lebrons stats are.

That said I have no doubt Lebron will collect at least a 1/2 dozen MVP awards down the road.
I'm just not buying KG. It just seems wrong to me to give it to a guy who maybe hasn't been the MVP of his own team. I'm just saying, an argument can be had that PP is just as valuable to the Cletics so far. A league MVP shouldn't have to answer that question.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Dunker
I honestly think the Cavs need to be top 4 in the East for Bron to have ANY chance of grabbing the MVP...
Why?

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think too many people throw out loose comments like this without any information to back it up. While I think Cavs will be a top 3 or 4 EC team, LeBron stats (atleast should) speak louder than any seeding does.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

not lower than 48 games maybe...
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Sorry, Guys!
I'm just not buying KG. It just seems wrong to me to give it to a guy who maybe hasn't been the MVP of his own team. I'm just saying, an argument can be had that PP is just as valuable to the Cletics so far. A league MVP shouldn't have to answer that question.

no it can't.

i wouldn't give this year's MVP to KG since he plays with two more perennial all stars, but celtics for sure aren't the best defensive team in the league because of paul pierce.

only someone delusional would pick paul pierce before KG.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
no it can't.

i wouldn't give this year's MVP to KG since he plays with two more perennial all stars, but celtics for sure aren't the best defensive team in the league because of paul pierce.

only someone delusional would pick paul pierce before KG.
Isn't that why you have the DOY for?
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

yes it is, and so what?

pierce scores less than 2 ppg more (and shoots 44%, while garnett shoots 55%. not really a miniscule difference, you would agree?). and garnett is a defensive anchor of the team, best rebounder, best post defender, best blocker. it isn't even a debate who's MVP of the celtics.

you take the stats out of the context, and that's your only criteria to judge players (and again, it's not like KG's stats are worse than pierce's)
and as we saw, sometimes you couldn't even do that right.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
yes it is, and so what?

pierce scores less than 2 ppg more (and shoots 44%, while garnett shoots 55%. not really a miniscule difference, you would agree?). and garnett is a defensive anchor of the team, best rebounder, best post defender, best blocker. it isn't even a debate who's MVP of the celtics.

you take the stats out of the context, and that's your only criteria to judge players (and again, it's not like KG's stats are worse than pierce's)
and as we saw, sometimes you couldn't even do that right.
The fact I could tell you, Piece leads team in scoring by MORE than 2 points (2.4), leads in assists (tied w/Rondo), tied for second in steals, while giving you 5 boards a game DOES validate an argument that he is JUST AS valuable to the Celtics as KG.

Case closed.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

I say its 48-50.... You cant go backwards as a team and then get MVP for it..This is the same team that won 50 last year.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Sorry, Guys!
The fact I could tell you, Piece leads team in scoring by MORE than 2 points (2.4), leads in assists (tied w/Rondo), tied for second in steals, while giving you 5 boards a game DOES validate an argument that he is JUST AS valuable to the Celtics as KG.

Case closed.

so if you want to go with the stats:

pierce has 2.4 points and 1.5 assists on KG. he averages same number of steals as KG. but 4.5 boards less, 1 block less, and 44% FG compared to 55%.

so where has your argument gone?

and this rant just about proves that you don't actually watch basketball. you know, it's played both on offense and defense. and even if we accept that pierce is tad better on offense (which he isn't, but whatever...), difference on the defense is leaps and bounds. KG, along with dwight howard and tim duncan is one of premiere game changers on defense. but i guess you can't notice that if you don't watch basketball.

but you just feel free to pick pierce over KG...just like you would pick yi over dwight howard and al horford over chris paul
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: How many wins do the Cavs have to reach in order for LeBron to win MVP?

....and another thing here about all this "look at how KG improves the defense by himself" BS stuff going around here on ISH.

First off, what you people are saying is not a tangible product. Of course we can assume the fact KG comes to the team and the Celtic D gets better, but so did Ray Allen. Plus Pierce was hurt last season. Furthermore, you people continually fail to admit the Woves were not a good team last year with KG as their leader as they gave up 100 points agame.

I don't really see how KG is getting ALL the credit.

But eeeeeeeeven if he is the reason for the defense...

Paul Pierce is the person Boston generally goes to in the clutch, so that evens the score with KG as far as the what intangibles each guy brings to the team. Now with that, when you consider Pierce's stats are just as good as KG, YOU DO HAVE AN ARGUMENT AS TO WHO IS THE MVP OF THE BOSTON CELTICS!!

And to me, it's not a matter of finding out who is more valuable than the other, but more recognizing that BOTH have been essential to Boston's quick start and have probably been co-MVP's at the moment.
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