Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt didnt finish top 5 in MVP voting in either year, while West was 2nd in 70 and was the scoring champ. West also won FMVP in 69. Wilt won no award nor was he top 5 in MVP voting. West finished way ahead in MVP voting while they played on the same team lol

Slightly off topic, but since it is your mission to demean everything Wilt...what were Kobe's and Shaq's excuses for getting blown out in the '04 Finals by a team with no superstars?

BTW, I think we both KNOW the answer to that one. Hard to believe players like West and Kobe could shoot so awfully in a Finals...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Slightly off topic, but since it is your mission to demean everything Wilt...what were Kobe's and Shaq's excuses for getting blown out in the '04 Finals by a team with no superstars?

BTW, I think we both KNOW the answer to that one. Hard to believe players like West and Kobe could shoot so awfully in a Finals...

How many rings did they win together? What were their Finals record?
Wilt has a career TS% of 52 in the Playoffs and Finals. And even while getting 3 chances to make 2 freethrows he shot a career 46.5 FT% in the Playoffs and 37.5 FT% in his Finals career...

[CavaliersFTW]

How many rings did they win together? What were their Finals record?
Wilt has a career TS% of 52 in the Playoffs and Finals. And even while getting 3 chances to make 2 freethrows he shot a career 46.5 FT% in the Playoffs and 37.5 FT% in his Finals career...

Answer his question deuce. Why did Shaq and Kobe choke so bad if they were both in the middle of their prime. They choked against a superstar-less Pistons team of all teams anchored by a 6-7 center right?

[LAZERUSS]

How many rings did they win together? What were their Finals record?
Wilt has a career TS% of 52 in the Playoffs and Finals. And even while getting 3 chances to make 2 freethrows he shot a career 46.5 FT% in the Playoffs and 37.5 FT% in his Finals career...

LOL!

Using TS% without CONTEXT.

I won't bother looking up Wilt's playoff TS%, because I already know he was light years ahead of the NBA norms...

but siince I already did the research myself... (BTW...I am using a TRUE TS%...which actually hurts Wilt)...

Chamberlain's TS% in his SIX Finals... .513
The league norm in those SIX Finals... .478
Wilt's opposing HOF centers (everyone of them)... .442

Hmmm...once again...complete domination.

Nor does that take into account that Chamberlain was KILLING them on the glass by a margin of 24.5 to 16.9 rpg, either.

All from a Wilt who played in five of his six Finals beyond his "scoring" prime (and in the one he did play in, he wiped out Russell...outscoring him by a 29.2 ppg to 11.2 ppg margin, and outshooting him by a .517 to .386 margin.)

[LAZERUSS]

How many rings did they win together? What were their Finals record?
Wilt has a career TS% of 52 in the Playoffs and Finals. And even while getting 3 chances to make 2 freethrows he shot a career 46.5 FT% in the Playoffs and 37.5 FT% in his Finals career...

You are always quick to point out Wilt's FT shooting (which BTW, Shaq was only marginally better at)...

but please...post Kobe's combined FG% in his seven Finals.

Oh...please post the post-season league average FG% while you're at it, too.

[La Frescobaldi]

Post the '69 playoff and finals stats between the two please. West won the FMVP while his team lost. Havlicek wasnt even good enough to win the award when his team won.

No good talking about stats as far as 60s Celtics. Go look at film. There's some out there. But you have to place Hondo in perspective when you do. Havlicek's scoring is immaterial to what he did on the court. The entire Celtics philosophy was based on balanced attack - no single player has overwhelming numbers in any of those ring seasons back then. They were balanced.
Look at the '69 Celtics scoring:
1 Sam Jones 22.5
2 Bailey Howell 21.9
3 John Havlicek 20.1
4 Don Nelson 19.3
5 Larry Siegfried 15.8
6 Rich Johnson 15.2
7 Tom Sanders 15.1
8 Jim Barnes 15.1
9 Don Chaney 13.8
10 Mal Graham 12.9
11 Em Bryant 11.9
12 Bud Olsen 11.7
13 Bill Russell 8.3

Pure balanced offense...... the most unstoppable teams you ever saw, because you couldn't just key on one or two guys defensively. You'd get smoked if you did. Bailey Howell could score, now.... he just didn't. Larry Siegfried too, he could just light it up - but they all stayed within the strategy at all times which was, always stay balanced. A total nightmare for all other coaches.

But Hondo - his D, his transition game... whole package. He was overwhelming. He took over games and you didn't even know it unless you knew what to look for. He'd switch 3 or 4 times in a single defensive set and so smooth you thought he was lined up on each guy from the beginning of the play. He would completely destroy transition games because he would just become a 1 man full court press. Havlicek at midcourt on defense in a fast game was a thing to be feared.
Of course I'm talking within the rules and so forth of that time frame. Jordan warped the entire mindset of the league since then.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Answer his question deuce. Why did Shaq and Kobe choke so bad if they were both in the middle of their prime. They choked against a superstar-less Pistons team of all teams anchored by a 6-7 center right?

Kobe failed big time, I'm not going to deny reality like jlauber does about Wilt's failures. But like Shaq said, "we won 3 out of 4".

[La Frescobaldi]

Kobe failed big time, I'm not going to deny reality like jlauber does about Wilt's failures. But like Shaq said, "we won 3 out of 4".

Kobe was dealing with enormous pressure that year. I think Shaq carries equal amounts of 'blame' for not handling that whole scene very well. I'm not even sure there was a way for the Lakers to keep from blowing up

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe failed big time, I'm not going to deny reality like jlauber does about Wilt's failures. But like Shaq said, "we won 3 out of 4".

Of course, as you like to point out...FT shooting can be the difference. Kobe shot 23-25 from the line in that series. Where would his Lakers have been without that?

THAT just shows you that great FT shooting is more important than great FG shooting...

[LAZERUSS]

BTW Duece...since this topic was directed at you...

How about your comments on these...

Playoff FG%'s...

'60 Arizin .431 Gola .412
'61 Arizin .325 Gola .206
'62 Arizin .375 Gola .271
'63 Gola...played 21 games and was shipped out
'64 Thurmond .438
'65 Thurmond (?)...half the season. Greer .455 Walker .480
'66 Greer .352 Cunningham .161 Walker .375
'67 Greer .429 Walker .467 Cunningham .376
'68 Greer .432 Walker .410 Cunningham broke wrist in first round (played 3 games)
'69 West .469 Baylor .385
'70 West .469 Baylor .466
'71 West and Baylor...both injured and do not play in playoffs. Goodrich .425
'72 Baylor retires after 9 nine games. West .376. Goodrich .445
'73 West .449 Goodrch .448

'62 Meschery was NOT an all-star. Shoots .397 in playoffs.
'63 Meschery (* All Star. Played 64 games. 16 ppg .425 FG% during season.)
'63 Rodgers (shoots .387 in regular season.
'64 Rodgers .329 in post-season.
'65 Jackson .338 in playoffs.

And this...

'60 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .380 from the field. Lose game six of EDF's.

'61 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .332 from the field. Lose in 1st round.

'62 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .354 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'64 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .383 from the field. Lose in game five of Finals.

'65 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .413 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'66 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .352 from the field. Lose in game five of EDF's.

'67 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .428 from the field. Wins Title

'68 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .416 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'69 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .421 from the field. Lose gaeme seven of Finals.

'70 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .469 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.

'71 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of WCF's.

'72 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .414 from the field. Wins Title.

'73 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of Finals.

Maybe you can find similar "help" for Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem...

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, has there ever been a more incompetent coach in an NBA Finals than Butch "The Butcher" Van Breda Kolf...

why didn't the Lakers win the title in '69?

"When we pass the ball into Wilt, sure he will score. But it is an ugle offense to watch."

So, instead, he let Baylor shot-jack the Lakers right down the drain...and with Chamberlain sitting on the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven, two point loss.

Not only did his stupidity cost LA their first ever title...it basically cost him his career.

At least Chamberlain was finally able to lead the Lakers to their first-ever title in Los Angeles a couple of years later...

Just another example of what Wilt had to deal with in his career...

[Pointguard]

No good talking about stats as far as 60s Celtics. Go look at film. There's some out there. But you have to place Hondo in perspective when you do. Havlicek's scoring is immaterial to what he did on the court. The entire Celtics philosophy was based on balanced attack - no single player has overwhelming numbers in any of those ring seasons back then. They were balanced.
Look at the '69 Celtics scoring:
1 Sam Jones 22.5
2 Bailey Howell 21.9
3 John Havlicek 20.1
4 Don Nelson 19.3
5 Larry Siegfried 15.8
6 Rich Johnson 15.2
7 Tom Sanders 15.1
8 Jim Barnes 15.1
9 Don Chaney 13.8
10 Mal Graham 12.9
11 Em Bryant 11.9
12 Bud Olsen 11.7
13 Bill Russell 8.3

Pure balanced offense...... the most unstoppable teams you ever saw, because you couldn't just key on one or two guys defensively. You'd get smoked if you did. Bailey Howell could score, now.... he just didn't. Larry Siegfried too, he could just light it up - but they all stayed within the strategy at all times which was, always stay balanced. A total nightmare for all other coaches.

But Hondo - his D, his transition game... whole package. He was overwhelming. He took over games and you didn't even know it unless you knew what to look for. He'd switch 3 or 4 times in a single defensive set and so smooth you thought he was lined up on each guy from the beginning of the play. He would completely destroy transition games because he would just become a 1 man full court press. Havlicek at midcourt on defense in a fast game was a thing to be feared.
Of course I'm talking within the rules and so forth of that time frame. Jordan warped the entire mindset of the league since then.

Yeah, if you go back and look at some of those games Hondo's looks like he has a different fuel tank, he guarded people like you would sometimes see Mugsy Bogues did. He just kept coming at the offense. He was really unique in that sense. I recall reading that he had an enlarged heart or oversized lungs - forgot which but he was really different.

[Deuce Bigalow]

BTW Duece...since this topic was directed at you...

How about your comments on these...



And this...




Maybe you can find similar "help" for Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem...

You already know my opinion of his 69 and 70 teammates. As far as the earlier years, the FG% of his teammates were relatively close to the league average is it not? Even if his teammates were really horrible early on, they were not by '67.

[Deuce Bigalow]

BTW, has there ever been a more incompetent coach in an NBA Finals than Butch "The Butcher" Van Breda Kolf...

why didn't the Lakers win the title in '69?

"When we pass the ball into Wilt, sure he will score. But it is an ugle offense to watch."

So, instead, he let Baylor shot-jack the Lakers right down the drain...and with Chamberlain sitting on the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven, two point loss.

Not only did his stupidity cost LA their first ever title...it basically cost him his career.

At least Chamberlain was finally able to lead the Lakers to their first-ever title in Los Angeles a couple of years later...

Just another example of what Wilt had to deal with in his career...

Lakers were down by double digits (or close to it) in the 4th quarter before Wilt went out. And when he was out the Lakers did go on a run, and almost came back to win.

[LAZERUSS]

You already know my opinion of his 69 and 70 teammates. As far as the earlier years, the FG% of his teammates were relatively close to the league average is it not? Even if his teammates were really horrible early on, they were not by '67.

In '61, the post-season league FG% was .403...Wilt's teammates... .332.

In '62, the post-season league FG% was .411. Wilt's teammates... .354.

In '66, Chamberlain's Sixers went 55-25, and had the best record in the league. In the post-season, while Chamberlain shot .509 from the field (and against Russell), the post-seaosn league FG% was .440. Wilt's teammates...
.352. yep....352 in a post-season NBA that shot .440.

Your opinion of the '69 Lakers. They collectively shot .421 in the post-season (and .360 in game seven of the Finals). The post-season NBA... .431.

Look...year-after-year Chamberlain's teammates under-performed. Hell, even in their title year of 71-72...his teammates collectively shot .414, in a post-season NBA that shot .446. And yet, because of Wilt's efficiency, rebounding, and stifling defense, that team went 12-3 and won the title. Just amazing.

And he was playing out of his mind in nearly every post-season series, as well. I have pointed out that he just blew away the NBA post-season TS% in his '65 playoff run, when he carried a 40-40 team past the loaded 48-32 Royals in the first round, and then lost a game seven, by one point, to the 62-18 Celtics...with a 30 ppg 31 rpg, .555 FG% (and .560 TS%) series.

Yet, the "Wilt-bashers" just look at his 2 rings. And, while they are ripping Chamberlain, they are praising Hakeem, who couldn't get past the first round in over half of his post-seasons. Or Bird, who played with HOF-laden rosters, and only won three rings...all while choking miserably in several of his playoff series. Or a Kareem, who won ONE ring in the decade of the 80's, and in fact, played on several 59+ win teams that just flat out puked in the playoffs. If it hadn't been for Magic saving his a$$, he would have been labeled as the greatest "loser" in NBA history.