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Old 01-09-2008, 11:41 AM   #1
Spudjjay
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Exclamation ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

East Starters
G-Billups
G-Wade
F-James(Duh!)
F-Garnett
C-Howard

Reserves
F-Pierce
F-Butler
G-Calderon(WOW)
G-Hamilton
C-Bosh
F-Jamison
F-J.Smith


West Starters
G-Paul
G-Bryant
F-Dirk(huh?)
F-Duncan
C-Amare

Reserves
G-Nash
G-Manu
F-Boozer
F-Marion
C-Yao
G-B.Davis
G-A.I

Jose Calderon!? This guy calls himself an expert

Last edited by Spudjjay : 01-09-2008 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

would it please you to learn that Ray Allen is pretty much going to the ASG also? because coaches will simply vote for the Big Three unanimously regardless just like how 4 Pistons were voted in?
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

So I guess Marion makes it, but not Amare.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

I guess trolls don't bother to read unless they see some way to prop up their pet player and tear everyone else down.

Look again, kid.

As for the list, it looks okay. There's some in there, but not much. I saw it yesterday afternoon, but I was leaving work so it was too late to post. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Sorry, Guys!
So I guess Marion makes it, but not Amare.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

I was going to post this earlier, but was lazy. Here's Hollinger's justification for including Calderon, for folks who don't frequent espn.com much:

Backup guard No. 1: Jose Calderon, Raptors
This is probably going to shock some people, so I'll just go ahead and say it: Calderon, right now, is the third-best guard in the East.
Go ahead and laugh. Get it out of your system.

Done? Good. Now let's look at the numbers. Calderon ranks fourth among Eastern Conference guards in PER; he's a millimeter behind T.J. Ford, who is out indefinitely, and of course trails Wade and Billups.

But he's way ahead of the others. Vince Carter, Richard Hamilton and Michael Redd are eating his dust, and no other point guard in the East rates in the top 50 in PER. (If you're looking for Jason Kidd, by the way, there's more on him below.)

You might think Calderon's numbers are so good because he's been beating up on second-teamers for half the season. Actually, no: His PER has gone up since Ford went out and now is as high as it's been all season. In his 20 games as a starter, he's averaging 13.5 points, 9.9 assists, and shooting 50.0 percent from the field. The other overlooked part is that he's making only 1.5 turnovers per game.

Let me repeat that for emphasis: 9.9 assists. 1.5 turnovers.

That's amazing. To show you how amazing, let's look at a stat I keep called "pure point rating." I created it to replace assist-turnover ratio, which tends to reward point guards who never penetrate. Pure point rating produces more valid ratings of a player's ability as a distributor by rewarding production instead of just making a ratio. (If you're curious, the formula is: Pure Point = (100* ((Assists * 2/3) - Turnovers))/Minutes.)

So … care to guess who's first in pure point ratio this season? Hint: it's not Steve Nash or Chris Paul. It's Calderon, by a fair amount.

No, he's not the scoring threat that Nash or Paul are, but Calderon is insanely efficient at running the offense and makes his shots, and that makes him a far more valuable player than people realize.

As for my arguments about preferring players who have established this level of performance, Calderon has a far better case than you might think. He played fantastic last season too and had the biggest PER jump in the league, though the voters chose to pretend he didn't exist in the Most Improved Player voting.

In fact, Calderon's 2006-07 PER ranked eighth among NBA point guards, and sixth among all guards in the East. To use one All-Star competitor as an example, his mark last season was not only better than Richard Hamilton's, it would have been the best mark of Hamilton's career.

So Calderon has been better than anyone else at his position except Billups, and his performance history suggests it's either not a fluke or a very small one. He's on a team with only one other viable scorer and, thanks to his skillful playmaking, has them in the top half of the league in offensive efficiency.

So if, after all this, you think he isn't an All-Star, I have only one question. Other than saying, "He's just not what I think of when I think of an All-Star," what case is there for Jose Calderon not to be an All-Star this year?
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Sorry, Guys!
So I guess Marion makes it, but not Amare.

Please read properly next time before posting. Thank you.

As for the Calderon pick, I think its simply an attention seeking ploy. Putting in a player who many wouldn't think of putting in makes you sound clever/different? Thats probably what he thinks anyway.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Jose Calderon!? This guy calls himself an expert

he does it by number and when you look at it - he really is the third best PG in the East this year (Billups then Kidd then Calderon)... we had a little discussion on this in the raptors forum... you could argue that tinsley is better than Calderon, but I still take calderon... do I believe Calderon is an all-star? NO, but at least Hollinger puts forth some argument to try to prove his point... now I didn't realize how poorly Kidd has been shooting this year (haven't seen much of the nets - so i can't really comment on the impact), so i'm going with the reputation and what I have seen from him in the past and putting him as the second best PG in the league...
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

People need to get over themselves.

Hollinger has time and time again made it clear that he's going exclusively on numbers. Please stop getting in your feelings when they numbers says someone considered a "non-star" is better than a "star".
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
he does it by number and when you look at it - he really is the third best PG in the East this year (Billups then Kidd then Calderon)... we had a little discussion on this in the raptors forum... you could argue that tinsley is better than Calderon, but I still take calderon... do I believe Calderon is an all-star? NO, but at least Hollinger puts forth some argument to try to prove his point... now I didn't realize how poorly Kidd has been shooting this year (haven't seen much of the nets - so i can't really comment on the impact), so i'm going with the reputation and what I have seen from him in the past and putting him as the second best PG in the league...

But the funny thing is he said if player A(Calderon) has been putting up allstar numbers recently but player B(Kidd) has been putting up those numbers forever, than he would pick player B every time.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

I have no problem with the Calderon pick...what's the big deal?
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

A Challenge, for everyone: Be honest, and without looking it up, post exactly what PER is. I'd be shocked if even a quarter of us know. And I'll freely admit off the top of my head that I sure don't.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
A Challenge, for everyone: Be honest, and without looking it up, post exactly what PER is. I'd be shocked if even a quarter of us know. And I'll freely admit off the top of my head that I sure don't.
a^2+b^2 = c^2

There, I figured it out.


Oh wait, you said Hollinger, not Pythagoras. My bad.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
A Challenge, for everyone: Be honest, and without looking it up, post exactly what PER is. I'd be shocked if even a quarter of us know. And I'll freely admit off the top of my head that I sure don't.
It's a ridiculously complicated and long-winded equation to figure out a player's positive impact on the game.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

You can say a lot about Hollinger, but he's the least biased commentator out there. And Jose has been one of the best guards in the east, by most measures. People love to bust a nut when they see a bunch of points scored, or see a triple double, but don't like to see that it was off of 8/28 shooting, or that the 10 boards were more than the teams entire front court combined.

In terms of PER, while it's not the be all end all of everything, it is a very useful stat, and a great way to cut through a lot of crap (i.e. you score a lot of points, but do it off of 30% FG and with 3 TOs a game). If you go to espn and look up the numbers, good players by any measure usually have pretty good PERs. And a lot of the 'good' players that don't are either in a state of decline, or riding a reputation.

Jose has played like an all-star calibre point guard. Whether the coaches vote him in is a different story, but his numbers have been spectacular.

Last edited by bjtrdff : 01-09-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: ESPN John Hollinger's AllStar Picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
It's a ridiculously complicated and long-winded equation to figure out a player's positive impact on the game.
No, I want to see the actual equation, ppg/fga*mother's maiden name. Not just what it's supposed to do. How many of these people talking about PER know what it actually is?
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