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  1. #31
    Scoring Champ Rowe's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9erEmpire
    Also,

    Hondo is considered one of the greatest players of all time in any position and suddenly people think Lebron is better than Hondo, when talking about position.

    Because he won 8 Championships. How many players have done that in any sport? But many people tend to overrate those great Celtics teams when they dominated the NBA pre-merger. I believe Hondo only won 1 NBA Title post-merger.

    No doubt he is a legend and great player but if we're ranking players All-Time, I feel that LeBron is above Hondo. LeBron is often put in a league of All-Time great wing players such as Jordan, Magic, Bird, & Oscar. We spend so much time arguing about his "legacy" because we know that Championships will define how we rank him All-Time with those great wing players. Talent-wise he is in their same class already in his career at 26. That is why LeBron gets the edge IMO.

    We dont bring up Hondo with that group because simply LeBron is a far superior talent and more dominant player than Hondo was. Hondo's legacy hindges solely off of his great play on a Celtics dynasty. That earns a lot of respect, but that isnt putting him past LeBron in my book.

    LeBron IMO already is the 2nd best SF in NBA history behind only Bird as far as an individual career/individual peak is considered. But his legacy as far as "greatness" is concerned will always be up for debate until he wins Championships.

  2. #32
    Scoring Champ Rowe's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller for 3
    Name a teammate who got better playing with Lebron other than Mo for one fluke year? Larry Hughes was a dominant two way wing, plays with Lebron becomes a scrub. Shaq was an 18-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Jamison was a 20-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Bosh was a 24-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Anthony Parker was a two time MVP and go to cltuch scorer for the Raptors, joins Lebron, scrub. Ben Wallace, Wally S, Hickson, Snow, etc. Lebron turned them all into spot up shooters and basically ruined their careers. Hondo was better at filling in what you need, Lebron is better at taking away from everyone else


    The hatred/retarded arguments against LeBron have finally reached an entirely new level.

    I could stand it for the last 5 months since the NBA Finals debacle, but now people need to speak up and let others know they're going too far and losing a grasp on reality.

  3. #33
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller for 3
    Name a teammate who got better playing with Lebron other than Mo for one fluke year? Larry Hughes was a dominant two way wing, plays with Lebron becomes a scrub. Shaq was an 18-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Jamison was a 20-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Bosh was a 24-10 big, joins Lebron, scrub. Anthony Parker was a two time MVP and go to cltuch scorer for the Raptors, joins Lebron, scrub. Ben Wallace, Wally S, Hickson, Snow, etc. Lebron turned them all into spot up shooters and basically ruined their careers. Hondo was better at filling in what you need, Lebron is better at taking away from everyone else
    Larry Hughes a "dominant two-way wing"....
    Shaq played 23 MPG with LBJ. Per 36 guess what his averages were?....19 and 10.
    Anthony Parker was MVP in ****ing Euroleague get out of here. He was even worse w/o LBJ last year
    Hickson is trash in general and played 11 and 21 MPG in his two years with LBJ
    Snow is trash in general and played with the Cavs at the end of his career
    Ben Wallace was past his prime and he played 1 and a half seasons w/ LBJ anyways. And since when is Ben Wallace known for his "shooting"? I didn't know him becoming a "spot up shooter" was reducing his offensive role, it'd actually be improving it
    Jamison played less Minutes on the Cavs, his production was virtually the same except he suddenly began to suck at Free throws.


    Obvious agenda is obvious.

  4. #34
    Dunking on everybody in the park greensborohill's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Hondo

  5. #35
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR3
    Larry Hughes a "dominant two-way wing"....
    Shaq played 23 MPG with LBJ. Per 36 guess what his averages were?....19 and 10.
    Anthony Parker was MVP in ****ing Euroleague get out of here. He was even worse w/o LBJ last year
    Hickson is trash in general and played 11 and 21 MPG in his two years with LBJ
    Snow is trash in general and played with the Cavs at the end of his career
    Ben Wallace was past his prime and he played 1 and a half seasons w/ LBJ anyways. And since when is Ben Wallace known for his "shooting"? I didn't know him becoming a "spot up shooter" was reducing his offensive role, it'd actually be improving it
    Jamison played less Minutes on the Cavs, his production was virtually the same except he suddenly began to suck at Free throws.


    Obvious agenda is obvious.
    So you're actually saying that Lebron makes his teammates better?

  6. #36
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus
    So you're actually saying that Lebron makes his teammates better?
    That is exactly what my post said. I was mostly pointing out the stupidity of his post, and it really depends on the teammate, but the fact that most of his teammates like him a lot should say something. Some work better with LBJ than others. As for Bosh, it's not LBJ so much as it is LBJ AND Wade (two guys who are used to handling the ball the most on the team and scoring 25+ PPG).

  7. #37
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR3
    Larry Hughes a "dominant two-way wing"....
    Shaq played 23 MPG with LBJ. Per 36 guess what his averages were?....19 and 10.
    Anthony Parker was MVP in ****ing Euroleague get out of here. He was even worse w/o LBJ last year
    Hickson is trash in general and played 11 and 21 MPG in his two years with LBJ
    Snow is trash in general and played with the Cavs at the end of his career
    Ben Wallace was past his prime and he played 1 and a half seasons w/ LBJ anyways. And since when is Ben Wallace known for his "shooting"? I didn't know him becoming a "spot up shooter" was reducing his offensive role, it'd actually be improving it
    Jamison played less Minutes on the Cavs, his production was virtually the same except he suddenly began to suck at Free throws.


    Obvious agenda is obvious.
    Repped.

  8. #38
    NBA lottery pick Dave3's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR3
    Larry Hughes a "dominant two-way wing"....
    Shaq played 23 MPG with LBJ. Per 36 guess what his averages were?....19 and 10.
    Anthony Parker was MVP in ****ing Euroleague get out of here. He was even worse w/o LBJ last year
    Hickson is trash in general and played 11 and 21 MPG in his two years with LBJ
    Snow is trash in general and played with the Cavs at the end of his career
    Ben Wallace was past his prime and he played 1 and a half seasons w/ LBJ anyways. And since when is Ben Wallace known for his "shooting"? I didn't know him becoming a "spot up shooter" was reducing his offensive role, it'd actually be improving it
    Jamison played less Minutes on the Cavs, his production was virtually the same except he suddenly began to suck at Free throws.

    Obvious agenda is obvious.
    How sad is it that you just had to explain all that? You just had to point out that Parkers MVPs were Euroleague...that's ridiculous.

    A small point to add, all those players' stats went down because when they came onto the Cavs they played smaller roles. When you go from being a second or third option to being a third or fourth, your stats are going to do down, what do you expect geniuses? What? Bosh was somehow supposed to average 24/10 on a team with 2 other 26 ppg scorers? A 1st option becoming a 3rd option should somehow retain his ppg? I've never seen such blind hate as I have this summer for someone. And it's for someone these guys have never even met. You know for a fact if they ever met him in person they'd turn into huge fans...so weird...

  9. #39
    Local High School Star
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Hondo. He had a better career, achieved more, was more consistent, had a better longevity and was a tad bit more reliable in the clutch.

  10. #40
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave3
    How sad is it that you just had to explain all that? You just had to point out that Parkers MVPs were Euroleague...that's ridiculous.

    A small point to add, all those players' stats went down because when they came onto the Cavs they played smaller roles. When you go from being a second or third option to being a third or fourth, your stats are going to do down, what do you expect geniuses? What? Bosh was somehow supposed to average 24/10 on a team with 2 other 26 ppg scorers? A 1st option becoming a 3rd option should somehow retain his ppg? I've never seen such blind hate as I have this summer for someone. And it's for someone these guys have never even met. You know for a fact if they ever met him in person they'd turn into huge fans...so weird...
    Agreed with most of your post. However, if some of these guys like Pegasus met LBJ in person, they'd probably try to attack him or something.

  11. #41
    Serious playground baller FF1's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.


  12. #42
    pegasus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR3
    Agreed with most of your post. However, if some of these guys like Pegasus met LBJ in person, they'd probably try to attack him or something.
    No, I would challenge him to a 1-on-1.

  13. #43
    How does my Dirk taste creepingdeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Since the last voting thread contained so much fail, I vote for Hondo. I'd normally put Lebron in front of him, but to rank Lebron yet another place lower than Dirk would be an even greater fail. So Hondo it is.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepingdeath
    Since the last voting thread contained so much fail, I vote for Hondo. I'd normally put Lebron in front of him, but to rank Lebron yet another place lower than Dirk would be an even greater fail. So Hondo it is.
    I know. I cannot believe that he passed Dirk on the list. I didn't get to vote, so it's my fault, too, I guess.

    I don't know what else Nowitzki would need to do to be ranked higher than Lebron. He ripped him a new one just this past summer.

  15. #45
    Serious playground baller RobertdeMeijer's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    These guys are so opposite...

    I really like LeBron. He's such a tragic figure, for whatever reason. In my opinion, a much more interesting player. But if I had to choose between his or Havlicek's career, I would go for Hondo's.

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