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  1. #1
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.




    John Havlicek

    13 time NBA all star
    8 time NBA champion
    1974 finals MVP(award did not exist for 5 of his rings)
    11 time all NBA(4 first 6 second)
    8 time all defensive team(5 first 3 second)
    Top 5 in MVP voting in two seasons
    Top 5 in assists twice
    Top 5 in ppg twice
    Career 20/5/6 player with single season highs of 29/9/8

    As for the quote...I posted for in his last vote so ill repost those. We all know who we are dealing with when we get this high anyway...



    Two headlines you'll probably never read: "Pope Elopes" or "Hawlicek Chokes."



    Quote: Jerry West told Sports Illustrated, "The guy is the ambassador of our sport. John always gave his very best every night and had time for everybody-teammates, fans, the press." Cowens added, "You tell me how many class guys there are like him anywhere. They ought to retire his number from the whole NBA. Just take 17 and stash it up there in lights."


    Quote: "He epitomizes everything good," said Celtics general manager Red Auerbach in The New York Times. "If I had a son like John I'd be the happiest man in the world."



    Quote: "On stamina alone, he'd be among the top players who ever played the game," longtime New York Knicks coach Red Holzman once said of John "Hondo" Havlicek. "It would've been fair to those who had to play him or those who had to coach against him if he had been blessed only with his inhuman endurance. God had to compound it by making him a good scorer, smart ballhandler and intelligent defensive player with quickness of mind, hands and feet."







    7 time all star
    2 time NBA MVP
    7 time all NBA(5 first team)
    3 time all defensive first team
    Top 5 in MVP voting 6 years
    Led NBA in scoring in 2008
    Top 3 in scoring in 6 seasons
    Career 28/7/7 player with season highs of 31/9/8


    I think with Lebron the quote really isnt needed. We all know the story. There are legends who say hes as good as Jordan there are people who claim he isnt even a great player because of where he chose to play basketball. We have all heard all the discussion. Nothing really needs to be added by me on that one.

  2. #2
    Please clap. Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Havlicek. James' may exceed him in individual achievements one day but he hasn't yet and Hondo never failed the Celtics the way James just did in a Finals series.

  3. #3
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Easily Hondo at this point. Its laughable to rank Lebron over Dirk all time as well.

  4. #4
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    As is often the case it comes down to what you are looking for..."greater" or "better'.

    Lebron has at 26...just listing awards and all nba teams and numbers and all...had a prety similar career to Barkley(extra MVP...same all nba first teams...extra finals...less all star games due to less seasons of course).

    If we are talking about best...there is a better case to put up up several spots than there is to have him down this far.

    If we are talking about greatness....the loose definition could easily be used to justify ranking Hondo higher.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Lebron James.

  6. #6
    7-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Lebron

    Some of his playoff performances have left me puzzled, but the reason they're talked about so much is because he's the type of player who rarely comes along. Should've won last year, but he's elevated some of those Cleveland teams to records they had absolutely no business approaching. He's become the most complete player in the game the last 3 years or so due to being one of the game's best scorers and passers while really stepping up his defense. His shooting hasn't been an issue to me since '08 either.

    He's been arguably the best player in the game for the past 3 seasons, how many players can you say that about? List all of them and I'd be surprised if any aren't in the top 10-20 on most lists with the exception of some pre-shot clock era guys. To me, he was the clear best player in '09 and '10, and depending on how heavily I weigh one series, he'd be in 2011 as well.

    He's really reached a level as a basketball player that extremely few have reached, and for his flaws, I can't rank him below a certain level. Those flaws come into play more for me when comparing players of comparable talent level. As great as Havlicek was(and I do think he was the best player on at least the '74 championship team as well as maybe the last championship or 2 he won with Russell), I don't think he was the player that Lebron is.

    There's a reason why he's become one of the most significant figures in basketball history.

  7. #7
    owwwww
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    I am going to have go with Hondo.

    Hondo succeeded every way where Lebron hasn't done enough in his career.

  9. #9
    Facts Are Misleading
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Havlichek.

    Bron has failed too many times in his career in big spots. Even though he's a better player than Havlichek, he's not greater at this point.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Also,

    Hondo is considered one of the greatest players of all time in any position and suddenly people think Lebron is better than Hondo, when talking about position.


  11. #11
    Scoring Champ Rowe's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    LeBron James.

    How many Hall of Famers did Hondo play with?

    Laughable to place Hondo's team accomplishments on a dominant Celtics team pre-merger as what makes him a greater player than LeBron.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowe
    LeBron James.

    How many Hall of Famers did Hondo play with?

    Laughable to place Hondo's team accomplishments on a dominant Celtics team pre-merger as what makes him a greater player than LeBron.
    read post #10


  13. #13
    pegasus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    Definitely Hondo. Some of you guys are crazy.

  14. #14
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    I think I view failure differently than many. I say people fail with teams that should win. So id say he failed last year but never before that. When a team wins 60+ for no reason but you being there...they arent supposed to win it all. They were like the secodn worst team in the NBA last year before Andy and Mo went down. People talk up missing Big Z when they were on a 60+ win pace inthe month or so he was gone after being traded to the Wizards. They were no worse without Shaq either. There was exactly one impact player on that team and he is the sole reason worth discussion that they went from 60+ wins to worst in the NBA.

    I wouldnt say Dirk would be a failure for losing last year. Or the year before that. Not teams that just...should win.

    I find it funny that Reggie Miller didnt win...but they never really...should have won. Karl Malone....I never thought he would win to begin with. Sure as hell not in the finals. What is funny to me is the way he managed to fail.

    Id say Lebron never lost to a team that his team flat out should have handled till the Mavs. The Celtics were just better than the cavs. Dwight no doubt had more help than Lebron while Lebron was playing well enough to have that post season thrown in with Jordans best without looking out of place.

    That said...I wouldnt be upset at Hondo winning. Hondo might win 3 in a row.

  15. #15
    College superstar
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    Default Re: ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #10. John Havlicek vs Lebron James.

    overall talent = lebron

    overall basketball achievements = hondo

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