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Old 11-11-2019, 07:45 PM   #31
ImKobe
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by RRR3
Kobe had peak Shaq. LeBron had Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

Kobe played the Spurs in the 2008 WCF with Pau averaging 13/10 on 45%FG, he beat them 4 - 1 while Lebron got swept with his 2nd option putting up 13/8 on 50%FG.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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duh hyuk hyuk hyuk!
Germany.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
Thats not really specific, "game and knowledge".. how exactly does that come into play on the court?

I remember Indian_guy defined it nicely, when he said why '06 Kobe is better than '06 LeBron, which was basically the same maturity argument as here of course, but I liked how he explained it.

How much more specific can you be...with the obvious?

Kobe was better in the post, had better footwork, and was clearly a better shooter. But most important, Kobe was a greater half-court scorer.

Its the little things too. Jordan rushing on a fadeaway or trying to find a seam in the defense that just wasn't there. Game management. Kobe also ran the triangle to perfection, or close to it during his MVP year. That's not something we would have seen Jordan do. Or liked anyway. He hated the offense initially and broke it often when Jax took over as head coach.

But again...all of that is experience. While Kobe had his faults, at 29 naturally he was a more polished player. And basically as efficient.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Kobe played the Spurs in the 2008 WCF with Pau averaging 13/10 on 45%FG, he beat them 4 - 1 while Lebron got swept with his 2nd option putting up 13/8 on 50%FG.
Damn peak Kobe was better than 22 year old LeBron. Congrats.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Damn peak Kobe was better than 22 year old LeBron. Congrats.

Point is Lebron wasn't better at 22.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

Welp thatís a wrap folks. Turns out Kobeís only MVP was a gifted
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Point is Lebron wasn't better at 22.
Than Peak Kobe? No.

Not sure how that’s supposed to mean anything.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Than Peak Kobe? No.

Not sure how that’s supposed to mean anything.

So when did Lebron become better?
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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So when did Lebron become better?
2009 would seem to be the year.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by RRR3
2009 would seem to be the year.

No arguments for Kobe or what?

What year do most Lebron fans think his prime started anyway? I see arguments made about 2006. Think he averaged 30/5/5 that year.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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No arguments for Kobe or what?

What year do most Lebron fans think his prime started anyway? I see arguments made about 2006. Think he averaged 30/5/5 that year.
I don’t see a rational argument for Kobe in 09. LeBron’s stats are overwhelming that year and he led a pretty weak cast to 66 wins.

Idk when his prime started. Maybe 06? His peak started in 09 and lasted through 13.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by ImKobe

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss.

Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs.

Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.

These facts are definitive... Kobe destroys lebron against the same comp, same age

Kobe was clearly better
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:51 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by RRR3
I don’t see a rational argument for Kobe in 09. LeBron’s stats are overwhelming that year and he led a pretty weak cast to 66 wins.

Idk when his prime started. Maybe 06? His peak started in 09 and lasted through 13.
Here's the rational argument:

Kobe won his first ring as "the man" that year while lebron wouldn't do that for 4 more seasons, during which he lost 3 straight times as the heavy favorite in the 09-11' playoffs

So despite lebron's stats in 2009 and his regular season run, he didn't know how to beat teams he was supposed to beat in the playoffs - 3 straight years he lost as the favorite - he simply didn't know how to win; whereas Kobe did.. that's the argument

Last edited by 3ball : 11-11-2019 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:47 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by ImKobe
Kobe - 95.6 pace, 57 wins
MJ - 99.4 pace, 38 wins

Also, MJ was 21/22 years old, Kobe at same age averaged 29.4/7.3/6.1 for a 15 - 1 championship run.

Mmm.

Yummy.

Nighty night, Simon.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: Kobeís MVP season vs MJís rookie season

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Originally Posted by ImKobe
BPM (especially defensive) is not a very accurate stat as its own creators admitted, I wouldn't read too much into that stat. Also, a player shooting well on a bad team would get a higher OBPM than a player shooting the same on a team that had a better average TS%. There are other issues with that statistic as well. It's one of the least important stats but you're obsessed about it beause it supports your argument, but I doubt you know anything about how it's actually calculated.

Can you tell me why Steve Nash was only 13th and 9th in OBPM during his MVP seasons while running the 1st and 2nd best offenses in the league?

Damn, more dessert.

Mmm.

Tasty.

Nighty night, Simon.
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