Remember Thunder kept Ibaka over Harden

[imdaman99]

Dude...OKC was 3 wins away from a championship. It was already working. They kept getting better every year.

You don't trade away a key player like that when you've improved constantly every year to the point where you get to the finals.

They had a chance at becoming a potential dynasty and they blew it.

The problem is all 3 of them are best with the ball in their hands. Sure each of the 3 can create shots for the other 4 on the court regardless of which 4 they are, but putting them all on the court in the same lineup? It would be sort of redundant. Harden was perfect in the Ginobli role, dominating the other teams bench and closing the games. He's damn good for the Rockets because of his usage rate, which he would not have had in OKC.

Harden would have never averaged 25 being the 3rd option. That only happens in video games Sacrifices have to be made.
They likely don't get Adams without trading Harden. Is Harden better than Adams? Sure. But Adams is clearly their 3rd best player now.

[bobopenguin]

What?

his right. u build around harden = lul.

[Young X]

The problem is all 3 of them are best with the ball in their hands. Sure each of the 3 can create shots for the other 4 on the court regardless of which 4 they are, but putting them all on the court in the same lineup? It would be sort of redundant. Harden was perfect in the Ginobli role, dominating the other teams bench and closing the games. He's damn good for the Rockets because of his usage rate, which he would not have had in OKC.

Harden would have never averaged 25 being the 3rd option. That only happens in video games Sacrifices have to be made.
They likely don't get Adams without trading Harden. Is Harden better than Adams? Sure. But Adams is clearly their 3rd best player now.

Who says he would have to average 25? He was already great in his role.

He was the difference in the Thunder reaching the peak they did. When he went to the floor, they went to a whole nother level.

I understand the whole 3 dominant ballhandlers thing but in this case, it was working. If the refs call an obvious missed foul on Lebron in game 2, OKC probably goes up 2-0 in the finals.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Who says he would have to average 25? He was already great in his role.

He was the difference in the Thunder reaching the peak they did. When he went to the floor, they went to a whole nother level.

I understand the whole 3 dominant ballhandlers thing but in this case, it was working. If the refs call an obvious missed foul on Lebron in game 2, OKC probably goes up 2-0 in the finals.

That's true. They probably win that series if the games were called fair, but the NBA had an agenda that season as seen in the Celtics series with the Rondo no call as well. I remember Westbrook going for 43 in a close game on almost all drives and shooting like 1 FT. One of the most disgusting series/title runs I've seen.

[Akrazotile]

Not saying he's a bad player, but do you realize how much of a joke he's thought of to not make all nba with his kind of production?

Everyone here is so funny with Harden. Everyone talks about how horrible his defense is, how he's a mental case, how he isn't a good leader / teammate...post pics of him not trying all time...etc.

But the trade comes up and you'd think he was Lebron James.

It's one my favorite things to witness here.

I love how everyone just assumes he was Manu Ginobili willing to whatever it took for his team to win. What ever made you guys think that? They were already having chemistry issues the two years before the trade at times.

Im with you man. This was not a "sum of the parts" situation. You dont just take Harden's production as the go-to guy in Houston and think you can add it verbatim to the Thunder.

But remember, this is ISH. Where people think the higher your ppg, the better you are as a player.

Kobe, Iverson, Arenas, Melo, Harden, Love > Duncan, Gasol, Nash, Iguodala etc


People dont think in in-depth layers here. Besides the LeThick Family

[BlakFrankWhite]

Really? No wayyyyyy

[FireDavidKahn]

Harden was gonna get a max on the open market. Ibaka got 12 million/yr

Harden said he would take a paycut to stay

[Gougou]

Harden was only because of Cap, without the Cap they would've kept Harden

[DMAVS41]

Dude...OKC was 3 wins away from a championship. It was already working. They kept getting better every year.

You don't trade away a key player like that when you've improved constantly every year to the point where you get to the finals.

They had a chance at becoming a potential dynasty and they blew it.

Dude...you are ignoring the points;

1. You say they kept getting better every year. Okay... I agree. And when Harden left after 12..they got better. They had a better win rate and they improved on both sides of the ball. They went from having the 2nd best offense to the best...and went from having the 11th best defense to the 4th best defense.

Please acknowledge this when you spew a narrative that doesn't make sense. We know they were great with him...they just also happened to be even better without him the next year. It's no shock that the defense got a lot better when you shed a player like Harden (and hell...he was only going to get worse as his eyes for the ball and the spotlight got bigger).

Please address this. They got better the year he left.

And, I might add, they lost in large part in the finals because Harden was terrible. Please acknowledge this.

2. You do have to trade away one of your key players when your owners don't want to pay for the team. Even if they did, the problem of putting that much money in 3 ball dominant perimeter players is suspect from a basketball standpoint.

3. There were already chemistry issues. Do you really not remember the "bench WB in crunch time"..."Harden should start"...etc.? You don't remember that stuff? That isn't ideal. You don't want two guys on a team competing against each other like that. Again, that stuff almost always gets worse...not better.

4. Why dynasty? Why would you think they are winning titles with the injuries they suffered or beating some of those great teams given how shit their defense would have been.

Your argument, as always, ignores reality. All you are doing is basically saying that keeping Harden would have made Durant and WB never get hurt. And that isn't a good argument. Because i could just counter and say I think the chemistry would have been so bad the thing would have imploded.

Here is what we know;

The three of them are not an ideal basketball fit all given the cap it takes for all of them. Harden is not Manu. He's not a guy that thrives in the 6th man type role. Chemistry issues already started.

The Thunder lost after Harden played like ass in the finals. The Thunder got better the next year on both ends without him. They now have a great center (exactly what they need) and the flexibility of a roster to make moves like they did today.

I'll ask again..if you looked at the Thunder right now. Are you honestly telling me that you think trying to sign James Harden (if he was a free agent) would address the issues this team has? Please answer.

Presti has made mistakes...some costly ones. But the Harden trade was not one of them. The Thunder suffered some bad luck with injuries and Presti screwed them by not getting in a remotely decent 2 guard for what they needed. He didn't need Oladipo back in 14, but he needed something better than Butler/Fisher.

And, quite frankly, they aren't winning shit if Durant is gonna choke in a home game 6 with a finals trip on the line like he just did. Doesn't matter if you have Harden or not...you aren't beating elite teams with your best player not showing up at home.

We've been over this time and time again.

And all I ever hear is...don't break up a team that was close. But that fails to address the reality of the real situation. You know, like getting clear cut better on both ends without him the next year. But yea...we'll just stick to a narrative because everyone is so entrenched in it.

And I still laugh at the Harden love. One minute he sucks...the next minutes he's Lebron. Make up our minds ISH...

[DMAVS41]

Who says he would have to average 25? He was already great in his role.

He was the difference in the Thunder reaching the peak they did. When he went to the floor, they went to a whole nother level.

I understand the whole 3 dominant ballhandlers thing but in this case, it was working. If the refs call an obvious missed foul on Lebron in game 2, OKC probably goes up 2-0 in the finals.

They were better without him the next year...on both ends.

You know what else would have helped them win the finals? Harden not playing like shit.

LOL at your argument being a missed call instead of acknowledging how bad Harden was in that series.

But yea...it was the calls. It wasn't the no defense playing redundant ball dominant guard that didn't show up.

[Young X]

They were better without him the next year...on both ends.

You know what else would have helped them win the finals? Harden not playing like shit.

LOL at your argument being a missed call instead of acknowledging how bad Harden was in that series.

But yea...it was the calls. It wasn't the no defense playing redundant ball dominant guard that didn't show up.

Better team in the regular season.

Which had alot to do with Durant and Westbrook improving skill wise as young players.

And I already know you're gonna attribute that to Harden not being there and I don't agree with it.

I guarantee you the 2013 Thunder with Harden there is even better than the one that we seen.

You ain't about to tell me Kevin Martin makes them a better, more dangerous team especially in the postseason.

[DMAVS41]

Better team in the regular season.

Which had alot to do with Durant and Westbrook improving skill wise as young players.

And I already know you're gonna attribute that to Harden not being there and I don't agree with it.

I guarantee you the 2013 Thunder with Harden there is even better than the one that we seen.

You ain't about to tell me Kevin Martin makes them a better, more dangerous team especially in the postseason.

You guarantee it? Hard to get much better than the best offense.

And they certainly aren't as good defensively....you simply can't argue with that.

The problem is you are thinking that Harden can make superstar level impact on that team and also let WB and Durant grow.

Have you ever thought that Durant and WB grew as players in part because Harden was gone?

Did you ever think the team improved defensively because Harden was gone?

You can't guarantee something we don't know.

Lastly, I'm not arguing that the Thunder should have traded Harden and that was the only deal possible. I'm saying it made sense and wasn't a bad trade. You are calling it a terrible trade. So the burden falls a bit more on you.

And I'm just not seeing many compelling arguments.

And I'll ask again...is James Harden the type of player Sam Presti should be targeting right now? If not...why not?

Or, I'll ask a simpler question. Which player would have helped this Thunder team more in the playoffs this year?

1. James Harden

2. Khris Middleton

[Im Still Ballin]

Anyone trying to argue OKC were better off without Harden, is a moron.

Talent beats everything else out. Bottom line. 3 MVP caliber players. Bottom line.

[DMAVS41]

Anyone that thinks the Thunder in the playoffs this year would have been better off with Harden rather than Middleton is a moron.

[Ben Simmons]

Anyone that thinks the Thunder in the playoffs this year would have been better off with Harden rather than Middleton is a moron.

Why?

I think you are underestimating how much a third scorer has an effect on teams. It would mean Curry would have to play defense every possession. The Cavs wore him out making him do that.