Anyone on here honestly think Jordan impacts a game more than Wilt or Shaq?

[NumberSix]

If Shaq is more dominate then MJ, then how did Shaq only make the finals ONE time during the 90's when MJ was playing?

The same reason why MJ made the finals ZERO times during the 80s. Because he's 1 person in a team sport you fcuking imbecile.

[jstern]

So you're grading on a curve? Why punish a big because of the rebounding edge positionally?

The rebound thing was an example. The point was that you have to judge relative to their position. A center lives close to the basket, is taller, they're going to get more rebounds than a guard. But they don't have an advantage because they're going up against other centers in a similar position to them. So it would be silly to use the logic that a center is absolutely better than guard because they put up certain numbers higher on certain things but in reality is not that much higher than what's expected for that position. That seems to be the logic of some people here.

That's not to say that a great center in general doesn't impact the game more than the average guard.

I don't believe Shaq impacted a game more than Jordan, but many people here are using their confirmation bias to use it as proof that Jordan didn't impact the game as much as a Shaq, by looking at the positives that a center brings and ignoring everything that a Jordan brought.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The same reason why MJ made the finals ZERO times during the 80s. Because he's 1 person in a team sport you fcuking imbecile.

Yeah except when you're talking about the 80's you're only talking about 84-89

When you're talking about Shaq and the 90's you're talking about from 92-99

Also Jordan only had rookie/young Pippen in the 80's..

Shaq had FIRST TEAM ALL NBA Penny Hardaway, Horace Grant, Nick Anderson & Dennis scott..

Penny in 94-95 Made 1st team, Shaq made 2nd team.. a First team All NBA player along with Horace Grant & Nick Anderson should be enough help for someone so dominate

[Orlando Magic]

Nobody that's rational, anyways.

[Soundwave]

Shaq wasn't able to stop his teams from imploding several times and lost several series' where he had the equal/better team.

Wilt ... wasn't much of a winner.

If *winning* is what we're talking about, Jordan trumps both. Rather easily.

As a guard you can control the game much more in clutch situations too ... the ball is in your hands, you control the game. Shaq/Wilt never really did that.

Grabbing rebounds/blocking shots is great, but push come to shove in a close game, MJ is simply more valuable than either as he's the greatest clutch performer in NBA history IMO.

As a singular force, I don't think there's ever been more of a difference maker than Jordan. You could outplay the Bulls and still end up losing because he could close out the game with a 2-3 minute stretch and knock you out.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yeah except when you're talking about the 80's you're only talking about 84-89

When you're talking about Shaq and the 90's you're talking about from 92-99

Also Jordan only had rookie/young Pippen in the 80's..

Shaq had FIRST TEAM ALL NBA Penny Hardaway, Horace Grant, Nick Anderson & Dennis scott..

Penny in 94-95 Made 1st team, Shaq made 2nd team.. a First team All NBA player along with Horace Grant & Nick Anderson should be enough help for someone so dominate

You got owned son. Move on.

[Soundwave]

Personally too I don't think Wilt or Shaq ever wanted to *win* as bad as Jordan did.

Parts of basketball are about skill, parts are your physical prowess ... but what a lot of people on this board don't discuss (probably because a lot of them never really have played basketball at a relatively high level) is the part of the basketball that's about your will power.

How bad do you want it? How far can you push your body? What do you have in the tank when you jumper is off and your legs burn and your lungs burn? What then?

In those situations Jordan just had another level he could go to, his intangibles were off the charts.

Many times in clutch situations watching Bulls games I'd notice Jordan would get key rebounds for the Bulls.

Strip away basketball and at some point it's just a matter of will. Who wants it more. That's what I love about basketball too ... it will expose you if you don't have heart. All the flashy dunks, nice stat sheets, etc. will be exposed if you don't have the balls to back up your game.

[Marchesk]

In those situations Jordan just had another level he could go to, his intangibles were off the charts.

Many times in clutch situations watching Bulls games I'd notice Jordan would get key rebounds for the Bulls.

Strip away basketball and at some point it's just a matter of will. Who wants it more.

And that's what put Jordan over the top as the GOAT. He's ultra-competitive. And it seems like Pippen absorbed that from Mike. Probably the entire Bulls team to an extent.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Personally too I don't think Wilt or Shaq ever wanted to *win* as bad as Jordan did.

Parts of basketball are about skill, parts are your physical prowess ... but what a lot of people on this board don't discuss (probably because a lot of them never really have played basketball at a relatively high level) is the part of the basketball that's about your will power.

How bad do you want it? How far can you push your body? What do you have in the tank when you jumper is off and your legs burn and your lungs burn? What then?

In those situations Jordan just had another level he could go to, his intangibles were off the charts.

Many times in clutch situations watching Bulls games I'd notice Jordan would get key rebounds for the Bulls.

Strip away basketball and at some point it's just a matter of will. Who wants it more. That's what I love about basketball too ... it will expose you if you don't have heart. All the flashy dunks, nice stat sheets, etc. will be exposed if you don't have the balls to back up your game.

Someone who plays, and gets it. Nice input. It's not always the skill of the man, but the will of the man. Intangibles, heart. People on ISH just don't understand things that don't show up in stat sheets or highlight reels, bro. A lot of John Hollingers around these parts.

And that's what put Jordan over the top as the GOAT. He's ultra-competitive. And it seems like Pippen absorbed that from Mike. Probably the entire Bulls team to an extent.

Which highlights the fake ultra-competitiveness of Kobe. Or we wouldn't see him show ponying on defense, and being lazy on rotations. Saving himself for shot jacking PPG agenda on the other end, instead of going all out on both ends ... inspiring his teammates.

If he was actually as competitive as Mike, it would trickle down to his teammates. And they'd fall in line like soldiers for him. That's what leaders do. There wouldn't be these effort questions on his teams, or clashing agendas of players.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You got owned son. Move on.

Jordan had 4 years in the 80's to make the finals..

[Soundwave]

That was the thing with MJ he had all the skill in the world and was well blessed with extreme athleticism too, but both paled in comparision to his compete level and will.

Shaq? Was kinda like the big bully, was great when front running, but when he got socked in the face by someone willing stand up against him, often times the entire Lakers/Magic/etc. would crumble like a deck of cards around him.

Don't get me wrong, Shaq is amazing, I have him ranked higher on my GOAT list than most ... but there's definitely a difference there.

Shaq liked to win. Jordan had to win. His failures only drove him to become even more maniacal about winning. There's a big difference in that mind set.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Shaq? Was kinda like the big bully, was great when front running, but when he got socked in the face by someone willing stand up against him, often times the entire Lakers/Magic/etc. would crumble like a deck of cards around him.

I actually think LeBron is like that as well.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You got owned son. Move on.

...

He had almost no floor spacing to drive for most of the Finals.

Lebron plays with SHOOTERS, which is why he has open lanes..

to bad he doesn't open up Lanes for Dwade..

Thats what getting owned looks like

[Soundwave]

I actually think LeBron is like that as well.

Yeah in mentality, I've compared Shaq and LeBron too. They both kinda have a "I give up" point if you push them hard enough, they will give and generally their team collapses around them when that happens.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yeah in mentality, I've compared Shaq and LeBron too. They both kinda have a "I give up" point if you push them hard enough, they will give and generally their team collapses around them when that happens.

Yea, they have a name for that sort of thing too.