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  1. #31
    Heat Nation Papaya Petee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    2010-2011 Wade was still elite and arguably the best player in the NBA. Aside from the Chicago series, he was brilliant the other 3 series.

    If they could get passed the Bulls, the Heat would of beat the Mavericks in 5-6 games, with the way Wade was producing, if you added Larry Bird. Even if Bird averaged 20\8\7 which would be below average for him, the Heat would of won.

  2. #32
    NBA Legend pauk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster
    He was talking about prime Larry Bird.
    Larry Bird averaged 22-14-6, was the best player on the team which had the best record... i dont know which specific "prime" season you are talking about but Larry Bird was "prime" from the very first get go in the NBA imo, the guy was just constantly equally amazing from start to finish (at least until he started having back problems)...

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pauk
    Larry Bird had his pitfalls aswell, even the Finals, most notably 1981 Finals which was worse than any Finals Lebron ever played....

    Larry Bird 1981 Finals:

    Game 1 - 19 pts
    Game 2 - 18 pts
    Game 3 - 8 pts
    Game 4 - 8 pts
    Game 5 - 12 pts

    "Replace Larry Bird with Lebron James in 1981...?" What would happen?

    I love Larry Bird, he is one of my favorite players of all time, but i hate this agenda of yours... stop acting like Larry Bird was flawless and would guaranteed never ever underperform in a span of such few games... nobody in NBA history was flawless all the time.... not even Jordan....
    Those stats are limited and misleading. Bird had a solid series in the '81, and IMO should've been given the MVP instead of Maxwell.

    Bird averaged 15/15/7, along with 2.3 steals, making clutch plays down the stretch in games 1 and the clinching game 6.

    He put up 18/21/9 in the close opening win, and set the tone for the series with a punishing, physical style of play - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A

    In the final game, he went for 26/13 and was the go-to option for the C's down the stretch, almost single-handedly keeping the Rocket's rally at bay on their own home court - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A

    In only his second season he was already showing phenomenal leadership and clutch play, something that took Lebron years to develop.
    Last edited by Champ; 08-23-2013 at 12:14 PM.

  4. #34
    Laker Nation riseagainst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Wade would go back to a 25ppg scorer in 2012 playoffs and 2013 playoffs. Bosh would be at least 20 in both.

    Larry doesn't need to dominate the ball to put up his numbers. Since he's the best rebounder on his team, he'd average at least 12 rebounds every playoffs from 2011 to 2013. You talking about a dude who out-rebounded Moses Malone and still put up double digit rebounding numbers playing with other great rebounders on his team.

    Bird's assist would be somewhere in the 9 range.

    Scoring wouldn't even be an issue. He can put up 30+ppg or he can put up 20ppg and dominate the game with his rebounding and passing.

    So basically, if we replace Lebron with Bird, we get better shooting, better passing, better rebounding, actually makes his teammates better and let Wade dominate the ball and effectively use Wade's abilities. Miami would 5 peat even with Wade's injuries like in 2012 and 2013. Not really even close.

  5. #35
    NBA Legend pauk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    That would also be the first time Larry Bird ever played all of the sudden with 2 new stars in his team, adjust to new teammates, adjust to new coach, adjust to new offense, adjust to new role, sacrifice much of his shots/balldomination/touches and other offensive tendencies, going through process of on-court chemistry problems because of that and having a guy (Wade) fighting for the alpha-role especially in the clutch & especially all of the sudden in Finals.... all of this in the middle of the worst time, the Finals....

    Thats exactly what Lebron went through in 2011.... and a big reason to his & Miami's tendencies in the Finals that year.... and that is exactly what Larry Bird (or anybody else) would have gone through, unless they were more selfish than Lebron hence took things upon their own hands (Larry Bird sure was just as unselfish as Lebron though)....

    So to really answer your question CavaliersFTW there is a possibility the outcome of that series & Larry Bird's performance could very likely be similar considering the realistic circumstances....

  6. #36
    Gawdbe GOATsol Nashty Scholar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Replace LeBron with Bird in 2011 and we have a completely different outcome, imo. Bird would be able to do everything Dirk Nowitzki did & then some. He'd easily be averaging close to a triple-double every game because I can't imagine he'd not get close to 10 boards and 10 assists playing alongside a prime Bosh and Wade.

  7. #37
    Dunking on everybody in the park
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    With prime bird, miami would have won in 2011, and would have won much easier in 2012 and 2013.

    Wade, bosh and bird would complement each other, and the fact bird is clutch and not a choker adds a lot to the equation.

    Wade and bosh would be allowed to do their thing, and would not be relagated to be $20,000,000 role players.

    Lebron and Wade are the same kind of player on different sizes. The thing is that lebron only can play on one way, having the ball on his hands, while wade is flexible to play off the ball also.

    They were never meant to play together, and someone had to sacrifice.

    We always talk about wade, but you also need to talk about bosh sacrificing. To fit lebron ball, he became a 3 point shooter center.

  8. #38
    Laker Nation riseagainst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen1
    With prime bird, miami would have won in 2011, and would have won much easier in 2012 and 2013.

    Wade, bosh and bird would complement each other, and the fact bird is clutch and not a choker adds a lot to the equation.

    Wade and bosh would be allowed to do their thing, and would not be relagated to be $20,000,000 role players.

    Lebron and Wade are the same kind of player on different sizes. The thing is that lebron only can play on one way, having the ball on his hands, while wade is flexible to play off the ball also.

    They were never meant to play together, and someone had to sacrifice.

    We always talk about wade, but you also need to talk about bosh sacrificing. To fit lebron ball, he became a 3 point shooter center.
    this. The only thing Lebron and Wade completely fit with each other are their fastbreaks.

  9. #39
    NBA All-star Nash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    what did Lebron average in the finals 2011?

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Agreed. Bird would get lit up like a Christmas tree on defense. The Heat would have no chance with him instead of LeBron on defense. Not to mention they get worse offensively also, especially in transition. The Heat basically replace LeBron with a slower, weaker, more unathletic and far less dominant player. Worse scoring and playmaking and much worse defense. Keep in mind the injuries that severely limited the effectiveness of Wade/Bosh in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs. No way Bird could handle that kind of workload.

  11. #41
    NBA rookie of the year
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Heat would win, Lebron's 4th quarter performance was laughably bad. I couldnt believe how much of a detriment Lebron was to his team down the stretch. Wade actually played good in that series.



    That is just straight choking. So much fear in Lebron back then.
    Last edited by MavsSuperFan; 08-23-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  12. #42
    Banned 305Baller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    NBA Champs.

  13. #43
    College star SHAQisGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010splash
    Overall the Heat are a worse team replacing LeBron with Bird. LeBron is the anchor that holds Miami's defense together. Without him, their defense completely falls apart, especially if you replace him with a crap ass defender like Bird.
    Larry Bird:
    1980 - 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg, Celtics become of the best defensive teams with him after being one of the worst, same team, no Parish or McHale yet
    1981 - 1st in DWS, 10th in DRtg
    1982 - 2nd in DWS, 6th in DRtg
    1984 - 1st in DWS, 2nd in DRtg
    1985 - 2nd in DWS, 9th in DRtg
    1986 - 1st in DWS, 4th in DRtg

    Hit me up when Lebron does that. If Bird played right now doing that, people would be drooling and he would make every all-defensive team. Really underrated defensive impact and back then it wasn't about the hype, and the league had a lot of great defensive forwards.


    Quote Originally Posted by pauk
    Larry Bird had his pitfalls aswell, even the Finals, most notably 1981 Finals which was worse than any Finals Lebron ever played....

    Larry Bird 1981 Finals:

    Game 1 - 19 pts
    Game 2 - 18 pts
    Game 3 - 8 pts
    Game 4 - 8 pts
    Game 5 - 12 pts

    "Replace Larry Bird with Lebron James in 1981...?" What would happen?

    I love Larry Bird, he is one of my favorite players of all time, but i hate this agenda of yours... stop acting like Larry Bird was flawless and would guaranteed never ever underperform in a span of such few games... nobody in NBA history was flawless all the time.... not even Jordan....

    Worse than any Finals Lebron played.. Good one.

    Bird had a bad shooting series, yes, but let's just forget the 15.3 rpg, the 7.0 apg and the 2.3 spg. Let's forget that he was only 2nd to Moses in rebounds (by 6 only), let's forget that he was 1st in assists out of all players (Max with plenty of easy baskets due to his playmaking and drawing of attention), and also led everybody in steals. Oh and most importantly, his team won, a team that had the 2nd worst record in the league before he got there, that only saw a major addition in Parish, and he was the alpha dog and leader, had just put up 26.7/13.4 rpg/4.6 apg on 55.4 %TS the series before vs the 76ers with Dr. J and Bobby Jones on him.
    Also during that series he was guarding Paultz and Reid, both really below their standards.
    He had no star-level help by his side, Tiny played like crap, Parish was consistent and helped here and there but that's it, Maxwell better as far as scoring yes but not even close to Bird in everything else and again he had lot of easy looks due to Bird's playmaking and all the attention he had.
    15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 on 41.9/81.3, as a 24 years old sophomore, leading a team to the Finals and they won.

    Lebron in his 1st Finals: 22.0/7.0/6.8/1.0/0.5 on 35.6/69.0, they lost
    Lebron in his 2nd Finals, in his 8 year as a pro: 17.8/7.2/6.8/1.7/0.5 on 47.8/60.0, they lost, he had D-Wade playing like a beast, and Bosh who was an established star before joining the Heat


    And just screw the clinching game 6 where he put up 26 pts, 13 rbs, 5 assts on 11/20 from the field and 4/5 from the line, clutch as hell in the 4th: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A

    His game 1 was also classic, more phyiscal and agressiver than anything Lebron has ever did or faced. 18/21/9 he put up also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A

    Quote Originally Posted by pauk
    That would also be the first time Larry Bird ever played all of the sudden with 2 new stars in his team, adjust to new teammates, adjust to new coach, adjust to new offense, adjust to new role, sacrifice much of his shots/balldomination/touches and other offensive tendencies, going through process of on-court chemistry problems because of that and having a guy (Wade) fighting for the alpha-role especially in the clutch & especially all of the sudden in Finals.... all of this in the middle of the worst time, the Finals....
    Just like Bird always did and the team was always at the top?
    Bird never needed to handle the ball as half as Lebron to be dominant, Lebron got his shots. Bird could dominate and be impactful in any way, meshing up with anyone, unlike James.
    Bird would put Wade in his place.


    Quote Originally Posted by riseagainst
    Wade would go back to a 25ppg scorer in 2012 playoffs and 2013 playoffs. Bosh would be at least 20 in both.

    Larry doesn't need to dominate the ball to put up his numbers. Since he's the best rebounder on his team, he'd average at least 12 rebounds every playoffs from 2011 to 2013. You talking about a dude who out-rebounded Moses Malone and still put up double digit rebounding numbers playing with other great rebounders on his team.

    Bird's assist would be somewhere in the 9 range.

    Scoring wouldn't even be an issue. He can put up 30+ppg or he can put up 20ppg and dominate the game with his rebounding and passing.

    So basically, if we replace Lebron with Bird, we get better shooting, better passing, better rebounding, actually makes his teammates better and let Wade dominate the ball and effectively use Wade's abilities. Miami would 5 peat even with Wade's injuries like in 2012 and 2013. Not really even close.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
    Larry Bird:
    1980 - 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg, Celtics become of the best defensive teams with him after being one of the worst, same team, no Parish or McHale yet
    1981 - 1st in DWS, 10th in DRtg
    1982 - 2nd in DWS, 6th in DRtg
    1984 - 1st in DWS, 2nd in DRtg
    1985 - 2nd in DWS, 9th in DRtg
    1986 - 1st in DWS, 4th in DRtg

    Hit me up when Lebron does that. If Bird played right now doing that, people would be drooling and he would make every all-defensive team. Really underrated defensive impact and back then it wasn't about the hype, and the league had a lot of great defensive forwards.
    Are you seriously using defense to support Bird in a comparison against LeBron?

    Who cares about some useless stat like "DWS"? The fact that Bird ranks so high attests to how useless it is. Anyone who seriously believes Bird makes a fraction of the impact of LeBron defensively needs to quit watching hoops.

    We're talking about a slow-footed, unathletic, mediocre man defender who could never shut down the opposing team's best scorer, could never guard positions 1-4, could never have the insane chase down blocks on fast breaks LeBron always has, could never protect the rim, etc.

    Hit me up when Bird can lead a team featuring Mo, Ilgauskas, Hughes, Sasha, Varejao, Boobie, Damon and other junk to 66 and 61 wins instead of playing with the most dominant frontline of the 80's. LeBron is way better than Bird. Don't deny the truth.

  15. #45
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer tpols's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replace Lebron James with prime Larry Bird in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010splash
    Are you seriously using defense to support Bird in a comparison against LeBron?

    Who cares about some useless stat like "DWS"? The fact that Bird ranks so high attests to how useless it is. Anyone who seriously believes Bird makes a fraction of the impact of LeBron defensively needs to quit watching hoops.

    We're talking about a slow-footed, unathletic, mediocre man defender who could never shut down the opposing team's best scorer, could never guard positions 1-4, could never have the insane chase down blocks on fast breaks LeBron always has, could never protect the rim, etc.

    Hit me up when Bird can lead a team featuring Mo, Ilgauskas, Hughes, Sasha, Varejao, Boobie, Damon and other junk to 66 and 61 wins instead of playing with the most dominant frontline of the 80's. LeBron is way better than Bird. Don't deny the truth.
    Bird is better rebounder, post defender, quicker hands in the paint and in general and of course very intelligent rotator. Miamis BIGGEST deficiency is low post defense and of course rebounding.. and Bird is better down low than Lebron is. Bangs harder, better anticipation, better hands for rebounds, better outlet passes to get transition moving. Bird covers huge holes for the team.

    Lebrons defense is better, but Miamis defense is already elite without Lebron.. Chalmers, battier wade can lock up the perimeter, and Bosh/Anderson are good help defenders.. plus spo is a defensive coach first and foremost.


    The value a team gets from Birds spacing and passing makes everyone on the teams life easier.

    No more Bosh shooting 3s all game.. no more clumped defenders in the paint, allowing Wade to have more lanes.. better ball movement and a much better TEAM offense.

    Miami with Bird destroys the spurs because the only reason the spurs hung around was because they were in Lebrons head making him scared to shoot and disrupting the whole flow of the offense. Doesnt happen with Bird.

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