Who is/was the better player: Scottie Pippen or Pau Gasol?

[elementally morale]

Okay. Your opinion>that of the guy who coached the team. How about Michael Jordan? According to MJ Pippen was the best guard on the team, better than absolute peak Drexler, better than prime Stockton.

And according to Shaq Bryant is the best player in the NBA and Nash's MVP is tainted. Oh, wait... Wade is the best and Nash is the best guard... errr.... point guard... oh, wait, LeBron is the best... Come on. Jordan also thought Kwame was to be good. Talent evaluation coming from Jordan is not something I want.

I can detect the agenda of people who I read often but on a site with hundreds of posters am I suppose to know the agendas of every poster?

If it was an agenda, I stated this clearly. I want to know if Jordan's second option is considered to be much much much better than Kobe's second option. It's a fair question. I can live with any answer, but you can't have it both ways.

BTW, I think I'd vote for Pippen at this point, too. I said so earlier. But I think this comparison is a lot closer than most people think. Then again, in case I had an agenda, it would backfire, because people voting Gasol would make MJ look better (something I allegedly do not want).

At any rate, I still think this comparison is valid. I know your opinion, and you know mine. Let's listen to other people's opinions now for a change.

[elementally morale]

Do LAL fans really think Gasol is top 5????

No. But I think he is top 10 this year.

(And I'm not at all sure Pippen was top 5 for many years. May have been for a few but not many.)

[cotdt]

I don't recall Jordan-Pippen ever losing by 40 in Game 6 of the NBA finals. 1-1 in the finals>6-0 in the finals? 6-6 in the finals>24-11?

Huh? The current Lakers team wouldn't have much trouble beating that Jazz and that Supersonics team either. The 2008 Celtics is a stronger team than what the Bulls had to play. Unfair comparison.

[Roundball_Rock]

Talent evaluation coming from Jordan is not something I want.

How about Chuck Daly? Daly and Jordan SAW Pippen firsthand. How many Dream Team games did you attend? How many practices? You put a lot of stock on contemporaneously seeing, no?

I want to know if Jordan's second option is considered to be much much much better than Kobe's second option. It's a fair question. I can live with any answer, but you can't have it both ways.

Everyone other than LAL fans knows the answer. Even most Jordan fans will say Pippen.

How about their #3, #4, and #5 options? What is the LAL hierarchy? Who is the #3 there? Who is #4? What Jordan fans will tell you is Pippen>Gasol but the rest of the Lakers>the rest of the Bulls. Do you realize Luc Longley was the #4 option on the Bulls???

because people voting Gasol would make MJ look better (something I allegedly do not want).

You, if you are as intelligent as you think you are, very well know only LAL homers are going to say Gasol. The idea is to get a thread of people to say Pippen>Gasol and then pretend that Jordan had a superior team than Kobe. Jordan's team sans him and Pippen sucked. Take Kobe and Gasol off the Lakers and they still have Artest, Bynum, and Odom. That is a solid core. Take Jordan and Pippen off the team and you have a 15 win team.

No. But I think he is top 10 this year.

Can you clarify if you mean top 10 PF or top 10 overall player? You do realize he was considered only the 6th-7th best PF until he began wearing the *purple and gold*?

The current Lakers team wouldn't have much trouble beating that Jazz and that Supersonics team either. The 2008 Celtics is a stronger team than what the Bulls had to play. Unfair comparison.

Really? Malone-Stockton and Hornacek. Payton/Kemp/Schrempf (all three were all-stars)/Hawkins/Perkins. Those were cakewalks? The mighty Lakers had trouble with Artest/Scola/Hayes. Yet they were going to roll over Malone-Stockon or the 96' Sonics?

In order to compare the Lakers to other teams we need to know the pecking order. Who is your #3? Who is #4? Who is #5?

[vert48]

Nice question. Kind of like "So, how long have you been beating your wife?"

I love Gasol, but Pippen was a lot better, imo. Both are great in the Triangle.

[imdaman99]

Both work best as #2 options. Yeah they lead their specific teams as the #1 to the playoffs but neither are great leaders. Let's not be so quick to hail Scottie as this great leader when he was benching himself at the end of games because he was not going to get the last shot. So yes I vote Scottie because he had a greater career, but lets not be so quick to roll our eyes at Gasol when he showed how much of a winner he can be last year as the #2.

[elementally morale]

Roundball_Rock

I know your opinion. Nice. Let's hear other people's takes now. My take for one last time: at this point I vote for Pippen but he was not a top 25 player of all time and no, he was not better than prime Drexler or Stockton. Pippen was also not better than Dirk Nowitzki is, and Dirk is also not a top 25 player of all time. Still, I'd say prime Pippen was a bit better than Pau Gasol now. Not immensely better but better.

So what do other people around here think?



Was Jordan's second fiddle head and shoulders above Kobe's 2nd fiddle?

[Roundball_Rock]

According to Phil Jackson and Pippen's teammates he was a great leader.

but lets not be so quick to roll our eyes at Gasol when he showed how much of a winner he can be last year as the #2.

Amare, Bosh, Boozer, Duncan, Dirk, and KG are all PF's who could have done about as well if not better alongside Kobe than Gasol. Name one SF who was better than Pippen in the 90's.

Let's hear other people's takes now. My take for one last time: at this point I vote for Pippen but he was not a top 25 player of all time and no, he was not better than prime Drexler or Stockton

You can't own up to your hypocrisy. You heard Chuck Daly and Jordan's opinion and dismissed them. Why? Come on. It won't kill you to admit it.

Most people have Pippen top 20-25ish all-time. Gasol is top 10-15 today, and only because he wears the purple and gold. He probably wasn't even top 25 when he was in Memphis. Slam Magazine had him 31st based on the 2008 season (Odom was not far behind-39th). A year later he magically moved up to 14th.

Slam Magazine rankings of PF's based on the 2007-08 season (overall ranking listed)

Duncan #3
Garnett #5
Amare #9
Dirk #12
Boozer #19
Bosh #22
Marion #23
Brand #27
Jamison #29
Gasol #31
Wallace #34
Odom #39

So just over a year ago according to a respected basketball magazine Gasol was 10th best at his position. Now he is among the 10 best players in the league according to many fans? What changed?

[imdaman99]

Amare, Bosh, Boozer and Dirk are usually defensive liabilities. So worried about their offense that they don't try hard enough on defense. You could probably blame a lot of that on coaching but Gasol was the best PF in every series he played in. And he did a great job defending DHoward one on one in the Finals. Yeah Duncan and KG might still be better, although they are clearly on the down swing of their careers.

[cotdt]

Slam Magazine rankings of PF's at the start of 2008-09 (overall ranking listed)

Duncan #3
Garnett #5
Amare #9
Dirk #12
Boozer #19
Bosh #22
Marion #23
Brand #27
Jamison #29
Gasol #31
Wallace #34
Odom #39

So just over a year ago according to a respected basketball magazine Gasol was 10th best at his position. Now he is among the 10 best players in the league according to many fans? What changed?

That list seems to be more based on PAST reputation than their actual impact on the game TODAY. Duncan and Amare have become defensive liabilities, and while KG is still the best interior defender in the league, his production is nowhere near Gasol's. Gasol is a far better rebounder this season, and he plays efficient offense and good defense. Since coming to the Lakers, Gasol's shooting has become much more efficient and he did not even play defense while in Memphis so YES, Gasol is a superior player today compared to his Memphis days.

[Roundball_Rock]

I understand he is a very good player. What I don't understand is a guy who was at best considered 6th-7th at his position, and according to Slam was 10th, just over a year ago is suddenly now considered #1-3 at his position. Anyone who said Gasol>Dirk or Gasol>Amare would have been laughed at of town until recently. What suddenly changed? Dirk, Boozer, Amare, and Bosh are the same if not better than they were then (in other words, people knew about their defense then). Duncan is about the same. KG, Brand, and Marion declined greatly. Did Gasol suddenly improve that much for his 6th season between June of 2008 and October of 2008?

That list seems to be more based on reputation than their actual impact on the game.

Do you want to compare them up to 2008? All those guys had more accolades than Gasol. Yes, even Marion. The hilarious thing is if it was, say, Boozer was wearing purple and gold instead of Gasol he would be the one hyped as the best PF today.

[dbugz]

Pippen >>>> Kobe >>>> Gasol

[COLOR="White"]I'm a Kobe hater so STFU! [/COLOR]

[elementally morale]

You heard Chuck Daly and Jordan's opinion and dismissed them. Why?

I don't dismiss their opinions but I have my own opinion. According to Magic Johnson, Kobe is arguably top 5 all time. I don't dismiss Magic's opinion either, but I don't think Kobe is top 5 all time myself.

Why?

Because I have my own opinion on players.

And again: How old were you when Pipen started his career? 2 years old? 5? I saw his career and it was a great one. However, I wouldn't go as far as to call him a top 25 player of all time. Top 50, yes. Top 35-40 is where I'd rank him, I think. In the range of Dirk somewhere. Pippen had more success, yes. And Jordan and Phil, too.

[rfm767]

This is a great thread. But the perfect cultive for Lakers/Kobe haters to come troll.

[magnax1]

Pippen is quite a bit better. While I think Pippen is pretty over rated anymore, he is just better. Pippen took the Bulls out of the first round without a marquee second option. To me its not that close, and I like Gasol alot more than I like Pippen.