Who is/was the better player: Scottie Pippen or Pau Gasol?

[Roundball_Rock]

all I know is the laker suddenly advanced to the final the year gasol joined in 2008, last year they won 66? games and won the championship, this year they are very likely to repeat it.

They were winning 67% of their games and contending for the #1 seed before he got there that year. People act as if Gasol transformed a 45 win team to a championship team. What did he do when he got to the finals? 15/10. Those are Horace Grant numbers. Odom had 14/9 in the same finals. Last year Gasol had a good finals but 19/9/2 hardly compares to 21/9/8 with world-class defense.

Gasol might not be MVP or top 20 players which we dont know yet, and his status isn't anywhere near pippen but it doesn't mean he is not as effective as pippen, his impact on the court is absolute.

Gasol was not even considered top 20 in the league. Now he is compared to a player most consider top 20-25 all-time simply because he plays for LA? Even people who think Pippen was a total fraud have him around 40th all-time.

Look at the players in those ranges. Is Gasol on par with these guys?

25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Gary Payton
29. Willis Reed
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Allen Iverson
32. Walt Frazier
33. Elvin Hayes
34. George Gervin
35. Jason Kidd
36. Dave Cowens
37. Kevin Garnett
38. Bob McAdoo
39. Nate Thurmond
40. Wes Unseld
41. Kevin McHale
42. Dolph Schayes
43. Dominique Wilkins
44. Bill Walton
45. Sam Jones
46. Kevin Johnson
47. Dennis Rodman
48. Dirk Nowitzki
49. Steve Nash
50. Billy Cunningham

Notice who is 48th. Gasol today--in his prime and probably at his peak--is not as good as past his prime Dirk. Is Gasol really comparable to these players?

Gasol is 29 years old. He has at best one or two more years of his prime after this year. He is what he is. He may win a few more rings but he is never going to be a player in the MVP conversation or someone who makes all-NBA first or second teams or all-Defensive teams. Even his all-NBA third team selection last year was aided by injuries to Garnett, Amare and Boozer. You may believe Gasol is going to morph into an elite player. More power to you but history shows us it is extremely rare for a player to dramatically improve at age 29 or 30.

Gasol is good and important to his team but there are a half dozen PF's who could do similar things if they were traded to LA. There is a reason why KG, Duncan, Dirk, Amare, Boozer, and Bosh were considered better PF's (so was Shawn Marion and arguably Elton Brand) than Gasol before he went to LA. The same can't be said about Pippen because he was the best SF of his era. By definition replacing him with someone else would be a step backwards for the team, both directly in replacing him with an inferior SF and indirectly in that since Pippen ran the offense (an impact Gasol does not have) and replacing him would mean replacing Paxson and later Ron Harper with a legit PG (the problem? Jordan could not function with a typical PG...). Gasol's impact can directly be replaced with any of those PF's. LA would trade peak Gasol in a heartbeat for past his prime Dirk today. The best SF of an entire decade is "close to" a guy who wasn't even a top 5 PF pre-LA? To put it another way, would you trade prime Jason Kidd, the best PG of the 2000's, for prime Chauncey Billups? That is the difference between the best player of his generation at a position and another very good player at the same position.

If you think Gasol is on the same level, or close to, Jason Kidd, Dominique Wilkins, or Gary Payton more power to you, though.

[97 bulls]

They were winning 67% of their games and contending for the #1 seed before he got there that year. People act as if Gasol transformed a 45 win team to a championship team. What did he do when he got to the finals? 15/10. Those are Horace Grant numbers. Odom had 14/9 in the same finals. Last year Gasol had a good finals but 19/9/2 hardly compares to 21/9/8 with world-class defense.



Gasol was not even considered top 20 in the league. Now he is compared to a player most consider top 20-25 all-time simply because he plays for LA? Even people who think Pippen was a total fraud have him around 40th all-time.

Look at the players in those ranges. Is Gasol on par with these guys?



Notice who is 48th. Gasol today--in his prime and probably at his peak--is not as good as past his prime Dirk. Is Gasol really comparable to these players?

Gasol is 29 years old. He has at best one or two more years of his prime after this year. He is what he is. He may win a few more rings but he is never going to be a player in the MVP conversation or someone who makes all-NBA first or second teams or all-Defensive teams. Even his all-NBA third team selection last year was aided by injuries to Garnett, Amare and Boozer. You may believe Gasol is going to morph into an elite player. More power to you but history shows us it is extremely rare for a player to dramatically improve at age 29 or 30.

Gasol is good and important to his team but there are a half dozen PF's who could do similar things if they were traded to LA. There is a reason why KG, Duncan, Dirk, Amare, Boozer, and Bosh were considered better PF's (so was Shawn Marion and arguably Elton Brand) than Gasol before he went to LA. The same can't be said about Pippen because he was the best SF of his era. By definition replacing him with someone else would be a step backwards for the team, both directly in replacing him with an inferior SF and indirectly in that since Pippen ran the offense (an impact Gasol does not have) and replacing him would mean replacing Paxson and later Ron Harper with a legit PG (the problem? Jordan could not function with a typical PG...). Gasol's impact can directly be replaced with any of those PF's. LA would trade peak Gasol in a heartbeat for past his prime Dirk today. The best SF of an entire decade is "close to" a guy who wasn't even a top 5 PF pre-LA? To put it another way, would you trade prime Jason Kidd, the best PG of the 2000's, for prime Chauncey Billups? That is the difference between the best player of his generation at a position and another very good player at the same position.

If you think Gasol is on the same level, or close to, Jason Kidd, Dominique Wilkins, or Gary Payton more power to you, though.

gasol would have to be the defensive equivalant of dekembe mutombo to be in pips class.

[Roundball_Rock]

gasol would have to be the defensive equivalant of dekembe mutombo to be in pips class.

These people don't know Pippen was the leading vote getter for the all-Defensive team for four straight seasons. Gasol can't even make the all-defensive second team. Yet they cite Gasol's "great" defense and don't even mention Pippen's legendary defense (many people consider him the GOAT perimeter defender. Gasol isn't even the best defender at his position today) when they claim Gasol is almost as good as Pippen was? Pippen (21/9/8, 21/9/7, 21/8/8 and these are lines from three finals alone!) is a choker; Gasol (15/10 and 19/9/2 in the finals) is a "great" playoff performer. Agenda anyone?