when did shaq become the BEST player in the league?

[mehyaM24]

you could argue he was already the most dominant player in 1997, his first year with the lakers, but IMO he solidified himself as the games best player in 1998.

- averaged 28/11/2 (2 blocks)
- highest PER in the league
- number one in field-goal percentage
- number two in the league in scoring (PPG)
- top 7 in rebounding (twelve games of 15+ rebounds)
- most double-doubles in the league (40)
- 1st team all NBA

i think what REALLY cements shaq's case though was him carrying the lakers throughout the postseason

1st round: 29/11/4 - 62%TS
2nd round: 31/10/4/4 - 64%TS
3rd round: 32 & 9 - 55%TS

in the conference finals, van exel shot 23% failing to average double figures in scoring and had less points than field goal attempts. kobe shot 37% ONLY averaging 10 ppg, and eddie Jones, shaq's second option, averaged just 15 ppg on 41% shooting. this is where shaq was truly doing all the heavy-lifting though. as i pointed out, he averaged 32/9 but ALSO did his best to stave off elimination with 39 & 15 and 38/7/4 in games 3 and 4, hitting upwards to 60% of his shots.

with a formidable team that wasn't primed to choke? shaq wins a title. beyond team accomplishments though, i dont really see a case to made for anyone else in 1998.

[Odinn]

It's hard to tell.

It's still too hard to argue against Jordan in 1997-98. Sure, Shaq's numbers are probably more impressive than Jordan's numbers solely. But Pippen missed almost half of the season yet those Bulls were 62W team thanks to MJ.

1998-99 is the worst season in Shaq's prime, probably. He wasn't even a major mvp candidate even though Lakers had enough w-l record for an mvp candidate.

The safe answer is 1999-00.

[Marchesk]

It still blows my mind that he only has one MVP. In what universe would anyone predict that Steve Nash would have twice as many MVPs?

Steve Nash MVPs = Kobe + Shaq

How is that even possible?

[T_L_P]

It still blows my mind that he only has one MVP. In what universe would anyone predict that Steve Nash would have twice as many MVPs?

Steve Nash MVPs = Kobe + Shaq

How is that even possible?

Games played.

Clear MVP in 98 based on court impact, but he was only on the court for 60 of the 82 games.

He should have won in 01 though, playing 74 games (but AI was 'the story')

Kobe: clearly not an MVP before 06. Didn't have the team record in 06 or 07, not the clear-cut best stats (you can say he had the best, but they weren't much better, if at all, than LeBron's or Dirk's).

Even a Kobe stan would admit LeBron was a much better Regular Season performer from 09 onward.

[Odinn]

It still blows my mind that he only has one MVP. In what universe would anyone predict that Steve Nash would have twice as many MVPs?

Steve Nash MVPs = Kobe + Shaq

How is that even possible?

He should have won it 2001 and 2005, other than 2000 of course.


But through the time, I got soft on Nash's MVPs.

In 2005; I'd prefer Shaq over Nash. But at the time, the case was difference between the season and the previous one. Sure, there are slight other changes too, but Nash made a 29W-team 62W-team. In this way, Shaq made a 17W turnaround. That was the case at time.

In 2006; Nash was the obvious choice. Amare nearly missed the entire season, and the Suns were still 54W-team. Sure, Kobe was the best player in the L without a doubt. Sometimes, it's not the case. The most stable criteria of the mvp race is the W game numbers. The last time when a player like in Kobe's situation won the mvp, the year was 1982.

[mehyaM24]

It's hard to tell.

It's still too hard to argue against Jordan in 1997-98. Sure, Shaq's numbers are probably more impressive than Jordan's numbers solely. But Pippen missed almost half of the season yet those Bulls were 62W team thanks to MJ.

1998-99 is the worst season in Shaq's prime, probably. He wasn't even a major mvp candidate even though Lakers had enough w-l record for an mvp candidate.

The safe answer is 1999-00.

i dont think jordan has a case to be honest. pippen missed maybe half of the season (chicago had kukoc and rodman to pick up the slack), but he was still "pippen" when it mattered. i can remember in game 1 of the eastern conference finals where he just completely shutdown the other pacer perimeter players, or in a pivotal swing game (game 5) when his versatility shined its brightest (finished with 20/9/8 and yet again shut down the pacer perimeter players). and how about the finals, where sloan, malone and stockton all thought he was the BEST player along with the BEST defender in the series leading up to game 4 i believe. the game he messed up his back.

pippen remained a constant when it mattered.

shaq's teammates on the other hand? 4 of his "key guys" shot under 40% (van exel just 23%), and unlike scottie, with nothing to offer defensively.

look no further than nobody on that lakers team (outside of shaq and jones for this particular game) being able to make a shot in an elimination game. horry shoots 0-1, fisher 1-7, elden campbell just 1-7, rick fox 3-9 and kobe had just 6 points. elden campbell is just 1-7 and Rick Fox is just 3-9. outside of shaq 35%.

hell even game 3 was in reach. utah i think won by 9 points, and shaq had 39 & 15 on 17/30 shooting. but jones shot 6/19 and nick just 2/13.

as i said, i dont think the amount of help is remotely close. shaq was single-handedly dominating in those playoffs.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Shaq was the same player as far as ability in 1998 that he was in 2000. The biggest difference was the guy coaching him. You put 1998 or even 1996 Shaq on the 2000 Lakers squad and they do the same things.

[mehyaM24]

didn't mean to repeat myself in my last post. but you get the picture.

Shaq was the same player as far as ability in 1998 that he was in 2000. The biggest difference was the guy coaching him. You put 1998 or even 1996 Shaq on the 2000 Lakers squad and they do the same things.

aside from shaq being in the best shape of his career as a laker, he was also a better defensive player, along with a rebounder. not only that, but his volume (field-goal attempts) in the postseason went up a ton. in turn, he had a series averaging close to 40 ppg.

similar players, but not the EXACT same.

[Im so nba'd out]

when he averaged 40 points ppg in the 2000 finals and his "robin" kobe bryant only averaged 15 ppg.Thats when i knew he was the best

[Shih508]

Games played.

Clear MVP in 98 based on court impact, but he was only on the court for 60 of the 82 games.

He should have won in 01 though, playing 74 games (but AI was 'the story')

Kobe: clearly not an MVP before 06. Didn't have the team record in 06 or 07, not the clear-cut best stats (you can say he had the best, but they weren't much better, if at all, than LeBron's or Dirk's).

Even a Kobe stan would admit LeBron was a much better Regular Season performer from 09 onward.

This is BS from ppl who never watch in 2001. AI's sixers team got almost 10-15 more wins than what ppl thought before the season started. Lakers, as a defending champ, barely got the #2 seed in the West in the end of season with no major injury that was an underachievement to most of reporters. That's the main reason AI got mvp over Shaq.

[julizaver]

you could argue he was already the most dominant player in 1997, his first year with the lakers, but IMO he solidified himself as the games best player in 1998.

- averaged 28/11/2 (2 blocks)
- highest PER in the league
- number one in field-goal percentage
- number two in the league in scoring (PPG)
- top 7 in rebounding (twelve games of 15+ rebounds)
- most double-doubles in the league (40)
- 1st team all NBA

i think what REALLY cements shaq's case though was him carrying the lakers throughout the postseason

1st round: 29/11/4 - 62%TS
2nd round: 31/10/4/4 - 64%TS
3rd round: 32 & 9 - 55%TS

in the conference finals, van exel shot 23% failing to average double figures in scoring and had less points than field goal attempts. kobe shot 37% ONLY averaging 10 ppg, and eddie Jones, shaq's second option, averaged just 15 ppg on 41% shooting. this is where shaq was truly doing all the heavy-lifting though. as i pointed out, he averaged 32/9 but ALSO did his best to stave off elimination with 39 & 15 and 38/7/4 in games 3 and 4, hitting upwards to 60% of his shots.

with a formidable team that wasn't primed to choke? shaq wins a title. beyond team accomplishments though, i dont really see a case to made for anyone else in 1998.

Shaq could be the best after MJ first retirement, but in his very solid 2nd and 3rd season Hakeem and DRob had a career years. And his post season debut was not very impresive.
Shaq shall be the best NBA player again after second MJ retirement or even in the MJ last season with the Bulls but this time he missed a lot of games to injuries. As I stated in another thread Shaq should have handle his body more properly. And I think he himself recognized that in an post retirement interview.
From 1999 to 2003 he was safety and clearly the best player.

[ArbitraryWater]

Probably 1998, yeah.. Not taking a near peak Shaq over 35-year old Jordan, realistically.. MJ did have the more successful season, though.

1999 would be between Duncan/Shaq/Malone.

Shaq was the same player as far as ability in 1998 that he was in 2000. The biggest difference was the guy coaching him. You put 1998 or even 1996 Shaq on the 2000 Lakers squad and they do the same things.

yeahhh no

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

didn't mean to repeat myself in my last post. but you get the picture.



aside from shaq being in the best shape of his career as a laker, he was also a better defensive player, along with a rebounder. not only that, but his volume (field-goal attempts) in the postseason went up a ton. in turn, he had a series averaging close to 40 ppg.

similar players, but not the EXACT same.

Him being in better shape and playing better defense were both direct influences of Phil. My point is that Phil were coaching Shaq in earlier years you would've seen the same thing.

[mehyaM24]

Him being in better shape and playing better defense were both direct influences of Phil. My point is that Phil were coaching Shaq in earlier years you would've seen the same thing.

point taken. shaq's said as much, so i cant really argue there.

[PHILA]

1998

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc8Z612reC8

39 Points
8 Rebounds
7 Assists
5 Blocks
0 Turnovers
15/20 FG (75%)
9/12 FT (75%)