MJ won 6 rings in the format we'll see in 2020

[Vino24]

Either the 90

[3ball]

Nobody builds a house on wild extrapolation quite like you.

How is it a "wild extrapolation"??

Is today's league not a 2-star format?... Isn't that like the 90's?.. Didn't Jordan 3-peat in the 2-star format of the 90's?

Where's the wild extrapolation??...

You just don't like the truth so you make up your own (i.e. it's a "wild extrapolation").. u and sdot are the most disengenuous posters on here.. and the 2 posters i would identify that have the most useless knowledge about the game, not knowledge of how the game actually plays

[3ball]

Jordan had the superior 2nd star in [COLOR="Blue"]nearly every series he won[/COLOR]

This is your definion "nearly every series"???...


Scottie Pippen

1988 PLAYOFFS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] vs[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 21.7 on 40.5%

1995 ECSF vs ORL 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] vs. MIA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECF[COLOR="White"]S[/COLOR] vs[COLOR="White"]N[/COLOR] IND:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.7 on 41.0%

Here's all the series wins where MJ had the inferior [COLOR="navy"]2nd[/COLOR] option:

1988 First Rd

1989 1st Rd
1989 ECF

1990 ECF

1992 ECF

1995 ECSF

1996 ECSF
1996 Finals

1997 1st Rd
1997 ECF

1998 ECF
1998 Finals

Here's all the series where MJ had the worse [COLOR="DarkRed"]3rd[/COLOR] option and remaining cast:

most series

There's a reason why MJ had to achieve the #1 all-time PPG and efficiency rating (PER), and it isn't because his team was stacked ..




Btw, KJ and Worthy > Pippen (they did bigger/better things), but they didn't win 6 rings with MJ, so they're viewed as inferior ...

But Worthy averaged 22 on 64% against the 84' Celtics at 22 years old, and had many series with over 25+ (26 ppg in 89' Finals vs Bad Boys... 88' FMVP) - like, Pippen can't do stuff like that and is infact inferior to Worthy

And you guys give Pippen props for winning 55, but KJ was routinely doing that pre-Barkley and led an upset of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in the 90' playoffs - he averaged 23 ppg and 11 apg - this was standard for KJ and Pippen isn't capable of that
..

[SouBeachTalents]

Btw, KJ and Worthy > Pippen (they did bigger/better things), but they didn't win 6 rings with MJ, so they're viewed as inferior ...

But Worthy averaged 22 on 64% against the 84' Celtics at 22 years old, and had many series with over 25+ (26 ppg in 89' Finals vs Bad Boys... 88' FMVP) - like, Pippen can't do stuff like that and is infact inferior to Worthy

And you guys give Pippen props for winning 55, but KJ was routinely doing that pre-Barkley and led an upset of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in the 90' playoffs - he averaged 23 ppg and 11 apg - this was standard for KJ and Pippen isn't capable of that
..

Posts like these makes me question if you actually understand basketball. Pippen is about as ideal a sidekick that Jordan could ask for. The Bulls get SIGNIFICANTLY worse swapping him out for the likes of Worthy & KJ. Their defense, Chicago's hallmark throughout their championships especially gets worse

By your rationale, Jordan & someone like Westbrook would've won more championships than Jordan & Pippen did

[3ball]

Posts like these makes me question if you actually understand basketball. Pippen is about as ideal a sidekick that Jordan could ask for.

You realize that mj led the Bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen right? (88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 97)

So it's "ideal" to have MJ score 33.5 ppg in the playoffs, while everyone in history is at 27-29 ppg or less........... AND lead his team in assists most playoff runs?

That's "ideal" to you?.. ... Your basketball knowledge tell you that's "ideal"????!?

It's goat, but not "ideal"...

Ultimately, only MJ won rings as the scoring champ - that's hardly "ideal".... Only MJ led his team in scoring for every playoff series of his career, and he did so by an average margin of 15.4 ppg over his 2nd option....... while leading in assists most years.... Again, not "ideal"...

You're simply taking MJ's goatness for granted by saying it's "ideal" that he scored more than anyone else while leading the team in passing too

[COLOR="Navy"]The Bulls get SIGNIFICANTLY worse[/COLOR] swapping him out for the likes of Worthy & KJ. Their defense, Chicago's hallmark throughout their championships especially gets worse

Says who? You?... You aren't considering how the team would be built differently around KJ or worthy, than Pippen

Generally, defensive players are much cheaper than offensive players - if the Bulls already had KJ instead of Pippen (assuming same salaries), it would be easier and they would spend less filling out the roster with defensive players than they would getting shooters/scorers, etc to surround and offset Pippen's weaker offense.

So you haven't considered anything or fleshed out how it would work, thus rendering your hypothetical useless

MJ, KJ, Horace, plus a bunch of better defensive players than Paxson, Kerr, etc will result in an equal/better defensive team and far superior offensive team

The Bulls get SIGNIFICANTLY worse swapping him out for the likes of Worthy & KJ.

Pippen's responsibility and performance was protected by MJ - Pippen can barely average 22 with everything perfect, let alone against the goat Celtics while shooting 64% like Worthy..... or winning fmvp..... or averaging 25+ like worthy did in many series

Similarly, Pippen can barely win 55 with a 3-peat system, let alone year-in-year-out like KJ, or while averaging 23/11 and beating Magic's 1 seeded Lakers... KJ averaged 22/11 in his sleep - that's better than Pippen

These guys were better than Pippen, and would've won more with MJ because the team would've been built differently with say, KJ instead of Pippen.. (bulls seek out cheaper defenders to surround KJ, rather than expensive offensive guys to surround pip)

By your rationale, Jordan & someone like Westbrook would've won more championships than Jordan & Pippen did

No, that's you inserting some player and saying i think mj would win with him

That's what your arguments have come to.. actually, that's what they've always been

Btw, of course MJ would win with Westbrook - Westbrook would be a goat defender just like Pippen was under Jordan, and far better offensive player... What are you smoking.. fkin russell Westbrook 30/10/10 is way better than Pippen.. probably even shoots better than pip

[3ball]

Posts like these makes me question if you actually understand basketball. Pippen is about as ideal a sidekick that Jordan could ask for. The Bulls get SIGNIFICANTLY worse swapping him out for the likes of Worthy & KJ. Their defense, Chicago's hallmark throughout their championships especially gets worse

By your rationale, Jordan & someone like Westbrook would've won more championships than Jordan & Pippen did

It's ideal to have mj score 33.5, or much more than anyone else in history?... While leading his team in assists for most playoff runs??

That's ideal to you?

It's ideal to have the #1 option score 10-20 more than the 2nd option in all Finals wins?? ... Your basketball knowledge tells you this is "ideal"?

Also, defenders are cheaper than offensive players - so it's easier to surround an offensive player with cheaper defenders, than surrounding a defender with expensive offensive players... so putting KJ into Pip's salary slot makes it easier to fill out the remaining team (cheap defenders over expensive shooters/scorers)

So you claim that Pip's defense was more valuable, but the Bulls could've largely replaced it while filling out the remaining roster easier, and KJ's positives are simply more impactful - i e. winning 55 games every year, getting 23/11 in his sleep, and beating Magic's 1 seed.. these things help MJ more

[sdot_thadon]

So you agree with Payton/Kemp, Robinson, and Penny

That's most of the guys I named.. and Drexler never played as horribly as 2nd three-peat Pippen

Regarding the others - ur a dumb robot that can't process nuance, so i don't expect you to think a short white guy could be as good as anyone that won 6 rings.. or any of the other guys and rationale that i mentioned...

I should type my responses to you in binary code so you can understand .. 00011110011100000111001010100001111.. you don't know basketball and obviously never picked up a ball in your life
.

Where in any of that did you gather I agreed with you in anyway. I actually reminded you that Pippen had more mvp votes than kemp and Payton combined that season. And you seem to be overlooking the fact Scottie was all nba AND all defensive 1st team that season as well. That's a different level of star no questions asked. Not to mention he made all nba at a forward spot ahead of Kemp that season if you need any further convincing. All of those guys you mentioned either for the most part:

weren't all nba level in the years stated

had less mvp votes

made all league a team below scottie

only made one of the all league teams while scottie made both.

It's rather hilarious to see you and the word nuance in the same sentence. Unintended self degradation I suppose. Stockton is not worse because Scottie won 6 rings, that's your bum ass logic. Scottie is percieved as better because he was able to be great without his 1st option. Malone and Stockton sort of needed each other to be great and their said greatness has a symbiotic quality to it. Scottie was an Mvp candidate on his own and led his own squad to contention after MJ's retirement. And of course John was a great in his own right, however I've never in all my years of basketball fandom EVER heard someone say they'd rather have Stockton over Pippen. Aside from that bullshit you just posted I'd wager I probably never will again. Quit hating on Pippen all the time. I swear you're Ish's resident dope fiend.

[TheCorporation]

We saw Jordan in the Before & After Scottie Era

How many times must I punish you?


Before Scottie: 1-9
After Scottie: Made it out of the 1st round



MJ: NEVA LOST
Pip: Uh, before or AFTER I helped your ass out?



I gotchu baby gir, no more 1st round exits any more

[Vino24]

We saw Jordan in the Before & After Scottie Era

How many times must I punish you?


Before Scottie: 1-9
After Scottie: Made it out of the 1st round



MJ: NEVA LOST
Pip: Uh, before or AFTER I helped your ass out?



I gotchu baby gir, no more 1st round exits any more

[stalkerforlife]

OP schooling so many.

A pleasure to see him work.

[3ball]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Where in any of that did you gather I agreed with you in anyway.[/COLOR]

Payton and Kemp were 2 2nd option level guys that were basically both Pippen level

At least Penny is a decent argument I'll give you that one. Even if it's a whole 2 year comparison

Mj never played Robinson in a game that mattered

So you agree with Payton/Kemp, Robinson, and Penny - the Robinson rebuttal above wasn't a disagreement.....

Not to mention [COLOR="Blue"]Pippen made all nba [/COLOR]at a forward spot ahead of Kemp that season if you need any further convincing.

But it means nothing when Worthy makes all-nba in 1991 and pippen isn't even an all-star?

Gtfo dude..

I actually reminded you that Pippen had more mvp votes than kemp and Payton combined that season. And you seem to be overlooking the fact Scottie was all nba AND all defensive 1st team that season as well. That's a different level of star no questions asked.

weren't all nba level in the years stated

had less mvp votes

made all league a team below scottie

only made one of the all league teams while scottie made both.

As an example - Isiah and Magic said said that the Bulls were a 1-man team in 1993 - so people understood that Pippen got a lot of his accolades because he was the star lucky enough to be MJ's sidekick

It's no different than Pau not making all-nba until he'd won a bit with kobe..

So look bruh - if it wasn't Pippen, it would've been Kemp, or Robinson, or Penny - MJ wasn't going his whole career without playing with another star... Every big star gets to play with another star in their career, and MJ was no different...

Heck, a guy like Vin Baker was better than Pippen (1st team in 97') , but he needed MJ to get his head right.. Pippen was mentally fragile too, but MJ protected him and got his head right - otherwise Pippen could've had a career like Vin

It's rather hilarious to see you and the word nuance in the same sentence. Unintended self degradation I suppose. Stockton is not worse because Scottie won 6 rings, that's your bum ass logic. [COLOR="Red"]Scottie is percieved as better[/COLOR]

Maybe Pippen is perceived as better than Stockton in sdot's bizzarro world, but not in the real world:





You simply overrate Pippen because you're too young to see what magic and Isiah described (bulls were a 1-man team)

Quit hating on Pippen all the time. I swear you're Ish's resident dope fiend.

[COLOR="darkRed"]So is this "hating", or just posting facts?[/COLOR]

1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2% (outplayed and bossed by X-man)

1994 ECSF vs NYN:. 21.7 on 40.5%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

[COLOR="darkred"]Yeah, there aren't ANY 2nd options that play better than that ^^^^^ ... ..

Pippen's stats during 96-98' playoffs - 17.6 on 40.8%[/COLOR]

[3ball]

Reminder - MJ won 6 rings in the scenario that Kawhi and Lebron face right now: a 2-star vs. 2-star format

MJ and Paul George, I mean Pippen won 6 rings in today's environment and format

Indeed, the goat + any solid star = the goat twosome and goat ring count in a 2-star format

[RRR3]

3ball got destroyed in this thread.

[3ball]

3ball got destroyed in this thread.

Actually I destroyed everyone especially sdot, which is why I bumped it

I'm quite proud of the thread and the entire concept in general (MJ three-peated twice in today's 2-star format)

I guess if someone from today's game wants to match it, they'll have to get the goat PPG and efficiency rating like MJ (PER)... So it probably won't happen

[RRR3]

Actually I destroyed everyone especially sdot, which is why I bumped it

I'm quite proud of the thread and the entire concept in general (MJ three-peated twice in today's 2-star format)

I guess if someone from today's game wants to match it, they'll have to get the goat PPG and efficiency rating like MJ (PER)... So it probably won't happen

How come you never post this stuff on your samuraiswish account