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Old 03-13-2013, 11:16 PM   #106
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Andrea Bargnani, Speedy Claxton?
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:31 PM   #107
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Not that anyone cares, but I've changed my position on Russell. I presently feel that while his 61-61 and 64-65 seasons were nearly as excellent, 63-64 was his best year. To be honest, each of his seasons from 61-62 through 65-66 was outstanding (he was also extremely effective in 56-57, though for a couple of reasons that I'll expand upon another day I'm excluding that from his prime).
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:42 PM   #108
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Not that anyone cares, but I've changed my position on Russell. I presently feel that while his 61-61 and 64-65 seasons were nearly as excellent, 63-64 was his best year. To be honest, each of his seasons from 61-62 through 65-66 was outstanding (he was also extremely effective in 56-57, though for a couple of reasons that I'll expand upon another day I'm excluding that from his prime).

I've changed from the '62 season myself, and because of research and hearing arguments from other more knowledgeable posters, I agree with the '64 season as Russell's best also.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #109
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Baylor with 38 ppg and Gervin with 34 ppg in their best seasons

id have to say shaq's prime has to be 99-00
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:29 PM   #110
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 1976-77
Ray Allen: 2000-01
Charles Barkley: 1992-93
Rick Barry: 1969-70
Elgin Baylor: 1960-61
Larry Bird: 1985-86
Kobe Bryant: 2005-06
Wilt Chamberlain: 1966-67
Clyde Drexler: 1991-92
Tim Duncan: 2002-03
Julius Erving: 1979-80
Patrick Ewing: 1989-90
Walt Frazier: 1971-72
Kevin Garnett: 2003-04
George Gervin: 1979-80
John Havlicek: 1973-74
Elvin Hayes: 1973-74
Allen Iverson: 2000-01
LeBron James: 2011-12
Magic Johnson: 1986-87 or 1988-89
Michael Jordan: 1990-91
Jason Kidd: 2002-03
Karl Malone: 1991-92 or 1997-98 (it's too hard choose, he had amazing longevity with many chokejobs)
Moses Malone: 1981-82 or 1982-83
Bob McAdoo: 1974-75
Kevin McHale: 1986-87
Alonzo Mourning: 1999-00
Dikembe Mutombo: 1996-97
Steve Nash: 2005-06
Dirk Nowitzki: 2005-06
Shaquille O'Neal: 1999-00
Hakeem Olajuwon: 1992-93 or 1993-94
Chris Paul: 2007-08
Paul Pierce: 2005-06
Scottie Pippen: 1993-94
Willis Reed: 1969-70
Oscar Robertson: 1963-64
David Robinson: 1994-95
Bill Russell: 1961-62
John Stockton: 1990-91
Isiah Thomas: 1989-90
Dwyane Wade: 2008-09
Bill Walton: 1976-77
Chris Webber: 2001-02
Jerry West: 1969-70
Dominique Wilkins: 1988-89
I've updated my list. Here you go.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:48 PM   #111
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Barkley is another guy I'm reconsidering. I like 89-90 more nowadays. 92-93 will get more nods, but I don't think the loss to the Bulls in 89-90 was on him (not that it was in 92-93 either per se). The MVP is a nonissue as well, since he won both seasons in the Sporting News Player of the Year voting (conducted by his peers). He was riding a high from Team USA, but I think both are arguable on the basis of his performance.

Just my $0.02, though.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:01 AM   #112
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Barkley is another guy I'm reconsidering. I like 89-90 more nowadays. 92-93 will get more nods, but I don't think the loss to the Bulls in 89-90 was on him (not that it was in 92-93 either per se). The MVP is a nonissue as well, since he won both seasons in the Sporting News Player of the Year voting (conducted by his peers). He was riding a high from Team USA, but I think both are arguable on the basis of his performance.

Just my $0.02, though.
The main differences, in 1989-90 season he scored on a better efficiency and 1992-93 season he put some serious effort defensively.

Still I find his performance in '93 playoffs more valuable.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:07 AM   #113
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
The main differences, in 1989-90 season he scored on a better efficiency and 1992-93 season he put some serious effort defensively.

Still I find his performance in '93 playoffs more valuable.

I agree with this assessment, I think he was more timely in 93. I think the efficiency edge makes it close though.

Hakeem is also extremely tough. I'm torn between those two seasons (and possibly 94-95).
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:55 AM   #114
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
Shooting .389 FG% in the playoffs is your best season ('01 Iverson) ?
This is why looking at stat sheets NEVER tell the full story. If you watched basketball back then you would know that Iverson's missed shots were often an assist, as they Sixers gameplan were depending on offensive rebounds and putbacks to get their scoring. They had a very limited offensive team, so Iverson had the green light to put anything up there in order for them to pound the boards.

Seriously, people's obsession over FG% is so misguided. Basketball is about a hell of a lot more than a high shooting percentage, something kids of today do not seem to understand. Although not that surprising, seeing that Lebron, Durant and Wade all admit to be stat padding to get as high a shooting percentage as possible (refusing to take end of quarter shots for example), which leads people to think a high fg% is the holy grail of basketball. Ignorance all around.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:41 PM   #115
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Miller, Reggie: 1989-90 (24.6/3.6/3.8/1.3/0.2 on 51.4% / 41.4% / 86.8%)
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #116
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Not that anyone cares, but I've changed my position on Russell. I presently feel that while his 61-61 and 64-65 seasons were nearly as excellent, 63-64 was his best year. To be honest, each of his seasons from 61-62 through 65-66 was outstanding (he was also extremely effective in 56-57, though for a couple of reasons that I'll expand upon another day I'm excluding that from his prime).

I'm interested to hear your reasoning for '64. I'm not disagreeing either, I'm undecided between '62, '64 and '65, so I'm always interested to hear if an argument is compelling enough to influence my stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
I've updated my list. Here you go.

Seasons I currently have definitively listed as peaks, imo are the following(not necessarily in order either)

2000 Shaq
1967 Wilt
1986 Bird
2013 Lebron
1977 Kareem
1987 Magic
2003 Duncan
1964 Oscar
2004 KG
1977 Walton
1990 Ewing
1962 Baylor
2009 Wade
2003 T-Mac
1993 Nique
2000 Zo
2001 Iverson
2008 CP3
2011 Dwight
1994 Pippen
1987 McHale
2000 C-Webb
2006 Brand
2003 Kidd
2007 Nash
1984 King
1982 Parish
2010 Bosh

There are others I'm on the fence about, or leaning towards one year, but these ones, I'm pretty certain about.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #117
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I'm interested to hear your reasoning for '64. I'm not disagreeing either, I'm undecided between '62, '64 and '65, so I'm always interested to hear if an argument is compelling enough to influence my stance.

He said as much himself in one of his books (Second Wind I believe), but their team defense was better in 64 (the GOAT in terms of estimated DRtg, and percent difference from league average). Had his best TRB% that season too. The 65 defense isn't far off (2nd best ever), but the playoff run was better offensively (record FG% in the Finals). I'd go with either, but I'll give 64 the tiebreaker due to his word. The 62 defense is also top 5 ever, but he didn't have the same responsibility on offense that season with Cousy still around (with the Jones boys starting at guard, Russ seems to have orchestrated the offense from the high post a lot more). Still, G7 in the Finals is one of the three GOAT performances in my book (Magic G6 in 80 and Dr. J in G6 of the ABA Finals are my other two) on the biggest stage.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #118
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I'm interested to hear your reasoning for '64. I'm not disagreeing either, I'm undecided between '62, '64 and '65, so I'm always interested to hear if an argument is compelling enough to influence my stance.



Seasons I currently have definitively listed as peaks, imo are the following(not necessarily in order either)

2000 Shaq
1967 Wilt
1986 Bird
2013 Lebron
1977 Kareem
1987 Magic
2003 Duncan
1964 Oscar
2004 KG
1977 Walton
1990 Ewing
1962 Baylor
2009 Wade
2003 T-Mac
1993 Nique
2000 Zo
2001 Iverson
2008 CP3
2011 Dwight
1994 Pippen
1987 McHale
2000 C-Webb
2006 Brand
2003 Kidd
2007 Nash
1984 King
1982 Parish
2010 Bosh

There are others I'm on the fence about, or leaning towards one year, but these ones, I'm pretty certain about.
I wonder how would you rate Hakeem's 1992-93 season.

Generally 1993-94 and 1994-95 are considered to be his bests. But I think his 1992-93 season has a case over 1994-95 season.

Although his scoring was better in 94-95, he was a better rebounder and defender in 92-93 with a considerable margin. His ppg is higher because he tried much more.

It's like '90 Barkley vs. '93 Barkley. But in Barkley's case, he was almost on the same level as a player and his '93 playoff run is more valuable. In Hakeem's case, I believe he was a better player in 92-93 season and his '95 playoff run is more valuable.

PS; Hakeem could (or even should) have won the 1993 MVP award.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:10 PM   #119
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
He said as much himself in one of his books (Second Wind I believe), but their team defense was better in 64 (the GOAT in terms of estimated DRtg, and percent difference from league average). Had his best TRB% that season too. The 65 defense isn't far off (2nd best ever), but the playoff run was better offensively (record FG% in the Finals). I'd go with either, but I'll give 64 the tiebreaker due to his word. The 62 defense is also top 5 ever, but he didn't have the same responsibility on offense that season with Cousy still around (with the Jones boys starting at guard, Russ seems to have orchestrated the offense from the high post a lot more). Still, G7 in the Finals is one of the three GOAT performances in my book (Magic G6 in 80 and Dr. J in G6 of the ABA Finals are my other two) on the biggest stage.

Good post, I had previously had '62 as his peak due to the 60-16 record with Russell, his great playoff series vs Philly and huge finals and the fact that he led his team in scoring during the playoffs and was 2nd during the regular season.

But I had started to change my opinion with Russell's quote in addition to the fact that Boston seemed to rely more on their defense with Cousy's requirement, and as you mentioned, that increased Russell's role as a playmaker.

I'm still not sure myself, some days I lean towards '64 lately, but it's difficult to disregard his great postseason in '62 after a regular season that's one of his best.

By the way, what was his TRB% in '64?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
I wonder how would you rate Hakeem's 1992-93 season.

Generally 1993-94 and 1994-95 are considered to be his bests. But I think his 1992-93 season has a case over 1994-95 season.

Although his scoring was better in 94-95, he was a better rebounder and defender in 92-93 with a considerable margin. His ppg is higher because he tried much more.

It's like '90 Barkley vs. '93 Barkley. But in Barkley's case, he was almost on the same level as a player and his '93 playoff run is more valuable. In Hakeem's case, I believe he was a better player in 92-93 season and his '95 playoff run is more valuable.

PS; Hakeem could (or even should) have won the 1993 MVP award.

I'm undecided at the moment between Dream's '93, '94 and '95.

First, I'll start off by saying that '95 was probably Dream's absolute peak offensively, and his playoff run was probably his greatest stretch of basketball.

But as a player, I believe he was a better defender and rebounder in '93 and '94, and as far as season-long consistency between regular season and playoffs, '94 edges out '95 out of the 2 title runs.

His level of play was probably very similar in '93 and '94, although my perception can be skewed towards '94 due to increased coverage of the Rockets in addition to the championship. With that said, I don't think Hakeem won in '94 as opposed to '93 because he was better in any way.

First of all, Houston's regular season record was very similar both years, and Houston finished the '93 season extremely strong at 27-6. The '94 team was also slightly improved with Horry entering his second year, the additions of Mario Elie and Sam Cassell and the momentum of the '93 season in addition to avoiding Seattle(who they arguably should have beaten in '93) due to the Denver upset.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:04 PM   #120
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Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I'm undecided at the moment between Dream's '93, '94 and '95.

First, I'll start off by saying that '95 was probably Dream's absolute peak offensively, and his playoff run was probably his greatest stretch of basketball.

But as a player, I believe he was a better defender and rebounder in '93 and '94, and as far as season-long consistency between regular season and playoffs, '94 edges out '95 out of the 2 title runs.

His level of play was probably very similar in '93 and '94, although my perception can be skewed towards '94 due to increased coverage of the Rockets in addition to the championship. With that said, I don't think Hakeem won in '94 as opposed to '93 because he was better in any way.

First of all, Houston's regular season record was very similar both years, and Houston finished the '93 season extremely strong at 27-6. The '94 team was also slightly improved with Horry entering his second year, the additions of Mario Elie and Sam Cassell and the momentum of the '93 season in addition to avoiding Seattle(who they arguably should have beaten in '93) due to the Denver upset.
Hakeem's 1993-94 and 1994-95 season are similar to Shaq's 1999-00 and 2000-01 seasons in a way.

Shaq was much more consistent throughout in 1999-00 season and didn't suffer from an injury, compared to 2000-01 season.
And Hakeem's title years are similar to this I think.

That leaves us 1993-94 season as his best title season, like you've already said.
But comparing 1992-93 to 1994-95...
Also comparing 1992-93 to 1993-94...

All in all, 1993-94 is the safest answer for Hakeem when you think about all the factors. I'm pretty convinced from what I saw, 1992-93 can be ranked over 1994-95 with pretty good reasons.
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