Magic Johnson's only advantage over Larry Bird is longevity

[Champ]

Magic was 3 years younger than Bird and STILL outplayed PEAK Bird in 2 out of 3 finals, and his numbers in the 84 finals were better as well.

Magic's playoff and finals run his rookie year are arguably better than ANY Bird ever had and also included beating the defending champs in the WC and a super team in the finals.

He was more versatile by virtue of his ballhandling ability, he led the league in steals(Bird never did), and his rebounding from the PG SPOT was just as good as Birds.

Not to mention Bird benefited from white east coast media bias.

Hyperbole, arbitrary facts, and reverse discrimination (in that order) weaken your argument.

[Akrazotile]

If you have Bird higher than Magic THEN YOU'RE A RACISSTTTTTTTT


- Saracastic

[SHAQisGOAT]

Magic was 3 years younger than Bird and STILL outplayed PEAK Bird in 2 out of 3 finals, and his numbers in the 84 finals were better as well.

Magic's playoff and finals run his rookie year are arguably better than ANY Bird ever had and also included beating the defending champs in the WC and a super team in the finals.

He was more versatile by virtue of his ballhandling ability, he led the league in steals(Bird never did), and his rebounding from the PG SPOT was just as good as Birds.

Not to mention Bird benefited from white east coast media bias.

In 1984, Lakers clearly had a better team on paper, and they were playing better throughout the playoffs, while Bird's teammates were underperforming given their usual standards.. Just for you to see, Bird was leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and in the Finals it was more of the same as he led them past the mighty Lakers, who were throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him.

In 1985, Bird had an injured elbow and hand, and it still took incredible performances from Kareem to put away the Celtics. If Bird was healthy they probably would've won again.

If only picking an year, Bird's peak was in 1986 and Magic "didn't bother" to show up to the Finals, yea really outplayed him

In 1987 the Celtics were falling apart while the Lakers had one of the GOAT teams and Magic was at his absolute best. Bird already had some "issues", plus he was 30 and playing the most minutes in his career, along with other starters, because the team had no bench. Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals given their talent, while the Celtics were going through some tough teams in some gruelsome series. McHale was playing on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also playing injured, no bench, DJ was getting older, Bird had given too much.. Larry still had plenty of great moments, Magic was a beast yea.


Please stop reaching son. And don't forget who the best player was, and their clear-cut leader, in 1980 (plus more).. Yea, that's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the MVP, most likely DPOY too, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the Playoffs, the "true" FMVP. Bird didn't have the luxury of having a top5 player of all-time (at least) to lead his team from the get-go, plus with Wilkes, Nixon and Coop. Plus Bird played in a tougher conference and had more competition at SF.

Yea, so what you say to Bird being a better shooter/scorer, bit better post-game and rebounding, better defensive player, not far behind as a passer.. Oh, Bird never led the league in steals, Magic was the better defensive player then, that settles it

Right, Bird was all hype, still to this day, while Magic is the opposite

[eliteballer]

Hyperbole, arbitrary facts, and reverse discrimination (in that order) weaken your argument.

...and the weakness in your argument is you haven't addressed any of the actual points.

In 1984, Lakers clearly had a better team on paper, and they were playing better throughout the playoffs, while Bird's teammates were underperforming given their usual standards.. Just for you to see, Bird was leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and in the Finals it was more of the same as he led them past the mighty Lakers, who were throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him.

In 1985, Bird had an injured elbow and hand, and it still took incredible performances from Kareem to put away the Celtics. If Bird was healthy they probably would've won again.

If only picking an year, Bird's peak was in 1986 and Magic "didn't bother" to show up to the Finals, yea really outplayed him

In 1987 the Celtics were falling apart while the Lakers had one of the GOAT teams and Magic was at his absolute best. Bird already had some "issues", plus he was 30 and playing the most minutes in his career, along with other starters, because the team had no bench. Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals given their talent, while the Celtics were going through some tough teams in some gruelsome series. McHale was playing on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also playing injured, no bench, DJ was getting older, Bird had given too much.. Larry still had plenty of great moments, Magic was a beast yea.


Please stop reaching son. And don't forget who the best player was, and their clear-cut leader, in 1980 (plus more).. Yea, that's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the MVP, most likely DPOY too, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the Playoffs, the "true" FMVP. Bird didn't have the luxury of having a top5 player of all-time (at least) to lead his team from the get-go, plus with Wilkes, Nixon and Coop. Plus Bird played in a tougher conference and had more competition at SF.

Yea, so what you say to Bird being a better shooter/scorer, bit better post-game and rebounding, better defensive player, not far behind as a passer.. Oh, Bird never led the league in steals, Magic was the better defensive player then, that settles it

Right, Bird was all hype, still to this day, while Magic is the opposite

And Bird didn't bother showing up in 80, 82, 87, or 88.

If Magic/Worthy/Scott were healthy in 81,83, 88, or 91 we're probably talking 9 titles for Magic. Hows that for hypotheticals?

Please don't call 80's Kareem a top 5 all time player. The man was pushing 40 and couldn't rebound to save his life for most of the 80's.

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder? Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.

Bird was a better shooter, but he couldn't carve up teams with slashing to the rack like Magic could.

Magic was several years younger and consistently outplayed PEAK Bird on the biggest stage..........................the numbers in those 3 finals aren't even CLOSE.

Bird was picking up trash in french lick at the age Magic was averaging 18/11/9/2 on 50% shooting in the playoffs and 22/11/9/3 on 57% shooting in the finals as a rookie.

[CelticBaller]

So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.

Bird >>>>>

[Pointguard]

I was looking thru google news for Bird VS Magic a while ago and up until 87/88 it was literally NO QUESTION that Bird was better. Every article, newspaper i could find said the same things EVEN LA times. Bird was getting GOAT talks, Red (who coached Russell and against Wilt) said Bird might be greatest ever.

Then Birds back got fcked and Magic closed the gap. Fact is when they were both healthy and in prime Bird was EASILY the better player.

Much better shooter
better scorer
much better defender
better rebounder
better offball
not far away passing/playmaking

Magic never reached the level Larry was at in 84 or 86 and 88 Bird is the best offensive season in NBA history.

The counter to your arguments:

Magic controlled the game much better than Bird did
Magic was a better on the ball.
Magic was more efficient
Magic had better judgment (something has to account for discrepancy in FG% as Magic was known for half court heaves at end of quarters)
Magic was more clutch (something has to account for the many more finals moments and big games)
Magic was one of the most feared rebounders and was a top rebounding guard.
There was more of a discrepancy in assist than rebounds.
While Bird was in his prime, as a Eliteballer above explained, Magic was outplaying him in the finals. Magic also ran the most efficient offense ever once Kareem accepted a lesser role.

[DMAVS41]

Not true at all...there are many arguments for Magic over Bird...but it's close either way.

It's highly subjective in a case like this in my opinion. I rank Magic pretty high though. I currently have Magic 3rd all time and Bird 7th...

[Micku]

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder? Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.

On the rebounding issue, Magic switch usually switch up on the defense and guarded bigger players. Like SFs, PFs, and SGs depending on the matchup. This was used for Magic to be a better help defender cuz he'a tall for PG. So, he didn't always guard the PG for him to get the defensive board. And Bird usually played PF earlier in his career. He battled with Moses Malone earlier in his career, and they wouldn't beat the Lakers in 1984 without Bird's contribution on the boards. The dude averaged 14 rebounds. And 15.3 rebounds against Moses Malone. While Magic is a very good rebounder as well, because he did average over 10+ rebounds before. Bird to me exhibit more hustle for the boards and has a more proven track record.

And for the post, it'll be interesting to see who is the most efficient in the post .Bird definitely more moves, better footwork, and probably scored more from the post than Magic did since Bird usually scored more points in general. Magic may be more efficient, especially since he had more of the size mismatch advantage and quickness if they send bigger players on him, but I don't know.

[SHAQisGOAT]

...and the weakness in your argument is you haven't addressed any of the actual points.



And Bird didn't bother showing up in 80, 82, 87, or 88.

If Magic/Worthy/Scott were healthy in 81,83, 88, or 91 we're probably talking 9 titles for Magic. Hows that for hypotheticals?

Please don't call 80's Kareem a top 5 all time player. The man was pushing 40 and couldn't rebound to save his life for most of the 80's.

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder? Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.

Bird was a better shooter, but he couldn't carve up teams with slashing to the rack like Magic could.

Magic was several years younger and consistently outplayed PEAK Bird on the biggest stage..........................the numbers in those 3 finals aren't even CLOSE.

Bird was picking up trash in french lick at the age Magic was averaging 18/11/9/2 on 50% shooting in the playoffs and 22/11/9/3 on 57% shooting in the finals as a rookie.

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.

[Pointguard]

Not true at all...there are many arguments for Magic over Bird...but it's close either way.

It's highly subjective in a case like this in my opinion. I rank Magic pretty high though. I currently have Magic 3rd all time and Bird 7th...

I just said the counter to his arguments - not all arguments, so please tell me where its not true?

[Pointguard]

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.

The Celtics were built on the success pattern of the later 1900

[fpliii]

I'd take Bird pretty easily, but Magic has advantages other longevity.

[Round Mound]

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.

[Pointguard]

On the rebounding issue, Magic switch usually switch up on the defense and guarded bigger players. Like SFs, PFs, and SGs depending on the matchup. This was used for Magic to be a better help defender cuz he'a tall for PG. So, he didn't always guard the PG for him to get the defensive board. And Bird usually played PF earlier in his career. He battled with Moses Malone earlier in his career, and they wouldn't beat the Lakers in 1984 without Bird's contribution on the boards. The dude averaged 14 rebounds. And 15.3 rebounds against Moses Malone. While Magic is a very good rebounder as well, because he did average over 10+ rebounds before. Bird to me exhibit more hustle for the boards and has a more proven track record.

Bird definitely got more boards. But not all boards are created equal either. If Magic got a rebound it was very close to be two points on the other end. If Magic got an offensive rebounder the defense was disorganized he was better than anybody in picking the offense apart. Magic, in his first four years was a better offensive rebounder. And Bird never equalled Magic's first years level of offensive rebounding.

And for the post, it'll be interesting to see who is the most efficient in the post .Bird definitely more moves, better footwork, and probably scored more from the post than Magic did since Bird usually scored more points in general. Magic may be more efficient, especially since he had more of the size mismatch advantage and quickness if they send bigger players on him, but I don't know.

Magic was focused and methodical going down low. Magic was more interested in seeing what the defense would give the team. He posted like it was a slow lane penetration. He posted a bit different than anybody else (Penny Hardaway would later try it). Magic used it to expose the opponents switches and defensive priorities before crunch time came. Magic was scouting the defense when he posted. But he still was very efficient when he decided to score.

Magic shot on average 49% better than Bird did from 2 point land the first seven years with one year going a remarkable 75%. Bird did catch up his last two healthy years and surpass Magic. All the shooting metrics (FG%, TS% EFG% also favor Magic) That FG% discrepancy is huge over a big majority of their career. While some of it was Magic got layups in transition (this is why I say a Magic rebound/steal was worth more than other people's rebound/steal) those numbers were consistently similar in the playoffs, even favoring Magic moreso, and where the game was more half court.

Bird was more skilled in the post than Magic but I wouldn't say he was better. Magic had better judgment than Bird did, and I guess knew what he could do much better. With some people here saying Magic couldn't shoot to save his life, he would have to have been light years better than Bird in the post. He wasn't light years better but it is safe to say he did more damage in the post.

[bizil]

With these two they are on the same tier of greatness. U can't go wrong either way. But Magic had better handles and was a better passer than Bird. Don't get me wrong, from a stationary spot, Bird is as good of a passer as anybody ever. But Magic's handles and pace running the fast break give him the edge on Bird in passing. I also think Magic was normally a bigger mismatch problem than Bird too. So just to say the only advantage Magic had on Bird was durability isn't correct. But they are so close in terms of who's better, u can't argue either way. Whoever says one is WAY BETTER than the other is flat wrong. Bird on offense may be the most skilled player of all time. Magic I feel makes his teammates better than anybody ever AND redefined his position more than any player ever. When u get to this level of epicness, its splitting hairs.