How many bigmen to ever be known as a superstar were not better than Chris Bosh?

[Kblaze8855]

For a moment...im gonna sit aside that he just put up 12/7 in the playoffs and scored zero in game 7...and im gonna ignore that he only started 10 games of the playoffs last year and put up Horace Grant numbers when he did play.

Id like to talk about Toronto.

In Toronto...Chris Bosh put up around 22-23 a game most of the time. Peaked just under 11 boards. 9 in 3 other years.

They won I believe...3...playoff games in 7 years.

*looks into that*

He was 6-14 and 3-11 in 2 of those 3 wins. Anthony Parker was the leading scorer for the raptors in the other one(Bosh did have 25/10 though).

He was all NBA one time in the 7 years. It was a second team. He got MVP votes in two seasons. He came in 7th and 12th.

For comparisons sake:

Buck Williams 1 all nba second team as well. Came in 7th, 10th, and 14th in his highest MVP years.

Anthony Mason has one all nba team(3rd). Came in 9th and 15th his best MVP years.

David Lee 3rd team...12th.

Marion...couple 3rd teams...10 and 14th.

Jermaine Oneal 3 time all NBa 3rd in MVP voting once.

Vin Baker 3rd team...second team...8th in MVP voting.

Brand second team...7th place. Same as Bosh. Even won the same number of games those seasons I believe.


The Raptors were 221-271 in his run as franchise player.

I mentioned the 3 total playoff wins.

In the last 25 years or so id say these are the bigmen ive seen called superstars/elite players/whatever you wanna call it on a fairly regular basis:


Shaq, Barkley, Karl Malone, Hakeem, Duncan, Webber, KG, Dwight, Dirk, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp for 45 minutes, Ewing, Amare. And Chris Bosh. Maybe Jermaine Oneal? Maybe.

To be fair Bosh mostly gets/got that talk as part of the Big Three thing where it just makes more sense to call it a big 3 of stars than a Big 2 and another good player.

But whatever the reason....

Hes gotta be the least accomplished and flat out least effective bigman ive seen get that label. I mean once we throw out the guys who just fell apart due to injury like Amare and guys like Kemp or maybe add Blake who got superstar talk due to the fame of their highlight reels.

Of the guys like Bosh who really sustained healthy careers...

Is he not the worst bigman of your lifetime to get the superstar label and keep it?

If not...who is?

Kevin Love perhaps? Who id have to throw in the injured area but im not in love with him either.

Isnt what hes actually accomplished far more along the lines of....

Mcdyess
Boozer
Vin Baker
Larry Nance
Juwan Howard
Sheed
Shareef abdur-Rahim
Brand
Otis Thorpe
Ben Wallace
Randolph
Aldridge

..and people like that...than say...

EVERY other power forward considered a superstar the last quarter century?

He follows it up by gradually becoming Ac Green...and he gets to keep superstar status?

He never should have had it in the first place. But if you insist on giving it to him...I must ask.

You consider Zach Randolph his first couple years on Memphis a superstar?

If not...why not?

I will say that Bosh in Toronto had a mean first step for a bigman, we all know about his jumper, he rebounded about as well as a 7 footer should in 35-40 minutes a night, and was not a bad defender.

I will also say....

He put up 11 points and 4 rebounds a game in a seven game conference finals...and he shot 37%.

Ill add that he has stepped up several times when Lebron or Wade are out. And I believe that if put back into a situation to be leaned on he would still put up 20 and 8 or 9.

But I will include that he had 8 20/10 games this entire season including the playoffs. Zach Randolph had 7 just in the playoffs in 2011.

There is the usual "Wade and Lebron dont let him shoot" claim.

He took 4 shots less this season than his career high. The Heat role players(as in...not the Big 3) average 31 shots a night. I suspect he could pull a few out of there. Im not going to pretend its as simple as FGA especially considering that he used to isolate and attack to draw fouls which dont count in FGAs.

Do me the courtesy of assuming I know that and ill do any Bosh fans the courtesy is not going into a long "Since when is not getting shots an excuse to stop rebounding" thing.

He has slowly become a jump shooter who doesnt even attempt to attack on his touches, his rebounding per game and per minute are career lows, hes stopped even making the open jumpers and people still...want to give him superstar status.

So I have to ask....what exactly did he do in Toronto to justify holding him in high regard even when hes become a role player?

He didnt exactly build the most sparkling resume to just hold over no matter how hard he falls off.

At least not to me.

Clearly he did to some of you.

Feel free to educate me.

Is it the all star games?

That it?

You make several all star games in a row you get to be a superstar forever no matter if you play like it or not and even if your team lost 50 more games than it won?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bosh literally has like three or four plays called for him. Guy is a complete after thought.

Having said that, he's always been a bit overrated. I never understood why people thought he was a franchise player back w/ Toronto. "Franchise players" are superstars you can build your team around - and subsequently win with.

Bosh was lucky "his" Raptors were in a shitty conference where winning less than 41 games got you to the playoffs.

[IGOTGAME]

Give me a list of what you think were considered superstars. I think he is def underrated.

[Psileas]

You know...I'd like to open a thread asking where people rank all-time Bosh's Game 7 performance, just to see what the most educated response would be...

[PJR]

Let's just keep it real: The only dudes who throw out the 'superstar' label for Bosh are those who attempt to diminish the team accomplishments the Heat achieve under LeBron's lead. Bosh is a really really good player. A 'Superstar' or 'franchise player' ? Na.

[selrahc]

you are probably one of those people who says pau gasol was a superstar when he joined the lakers, when he averaged just 18 and 8 and never won a playoff game with the grizzlies....

and then you go and say bosh was never a superstar averaging 24/11 and winning games in the playoffs....

always trying to downplay lebrons supporting cast to make him seem better and praise kobes supporting cast to make him seem worse.

[Bandito]

Let's just keep it real: The only dudes who throw out the 'superstar' label for Bosh are those who attempt to diminish the team accomplishments the Heat achieve under LeBron's lead. Bosh is a really really good player. A 'Superstar' or 'franchise player' ? Na.

The same can be said about Lebron stan saying that Gasol was a superstar in those Grizzlies team. or how Dennis Rodman was a dominant player in the post.

[IGOTGAME]

If Bosh were on another team these same people would be calling him a top 10 or 12 player. I don't consider that a superstar but a ton of people hear do. Guy can give you 20/10 plus good defense n passing out the post. He has never been my favorite player and I only consider 3-5 guys superstars but Bosh is a supremely talented guy who give up trying to become the best he could to get rings.

[GrapeApe]

I don't think anyone considers Bosh a superstar, but he's better than his numbers the last 2 years would indicate. He's playing out of position and is clearly uncomfortable. To his credit he's sacrificed for the good of the team and doesn't complain about it. His defensive mobility and the spacing he creates on offense have been crucial to the Heat's success.

[red1]

bosh was never a super star. he is a solid all-star who is not being used to his full potential since he is a pf playing centre

[PJR]

The same can be said about Lebron stan saying that Gasol was a superstar in those Grizzlies team. or how Dennis Rodman was a dominant player in the post.

My goodness, shut the hell up. Aint nobody talking about Gasol or Rodman.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Was Shareef Abdur Rahim considered a superstar? He was Chris Bosh before Chris Bosh was cool.

[TonyMontana]

Pau Gasol was a superstar under Phil Jacksons triangle offense. He led the Lakers in win shares during his tenure there. He had the best low post moves of any player in the NBA during those years and his length made him a guy on defense that could protect the rim. Also a great rebounder.

Gasol brought LA from a team with three consecutive years of not being able to win a playoff series to a team that went to the Finals(2 titles) three times in three years.

Bosh can't even lead a team without any other bigman in the rebounding category.

Bosh gets taken out of his game at the slighest physicality, he is a weak rebounder, and his only role offensively is to shoot mid range jumpshots at a rate of 43%.

I would trade Bosh straight up for Omar Asik. I want my bigman to finish inside, rebound, and protect the rim.

[FiveRings]

If Bosh were on another team these same people would be calling him a top 10 or 12 player. I don't consider that a superstar but a ton of people hear do. Guy can give you 20/10 plus good defense n passing out the post. He has never been my favorite player and I only consider 3-5 guys superstars but Bosh is a supremely talented guy who give up trying to become the best he could to get rings.

I agree with this. I think there are very few who truly considered Bosh to be a superstar. To me you can't even call a guy like Carmelo Anthony a superstar. He's just a good all star. Guys like Lebron, Kobe, Durant, CP3, Wade when he's not hurt, prime Dwight without a broken back, and maybe a couple others currently playing are what I consider to be superstars. The best of the best playing. Not guys Bosh, Melo, Blake Griffin, or Paul George.

Bosh is not a superstar, but he is a star player. His all around numbers would not look like they do if he was second option on a team.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I'm not sure anyone believes him to be a superstar. A star, yeah, but so is anyone who averages 20/10. If the Heat used him properly he'd be much more appreciated, too... he should get touches in the post more often.