is it safe to say Shaq "NEVER did sh*t" without an elite Kobe Bryant?

[ArbitraryWater]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

Its actually very logical when you look at it year for year...

Not just is 95-99 Shaq better than any Kobe version, but he also has more elite seasons than Kobe. 1993-2005 > 2001-2003, 2006-2010

[BuffaloBill]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

Is it weird?

[Nikola_]

i thought shaq acknowledges kobe and doesnt deny that. didnt he say he loved la more?

[ClipperRevival]

Since Shaq played with Kobe during his prime years (24-31), I would guess that most of his success would've happened during this time period. But Shaq went to a finals before his prime in 1995 and won a ring after his prime in 2006 without Kobe. You could've put a lot of other great wings in the same situation Kobe was in and Shaq still would've won rings.

Is it safe to say Kobe didn't do sh*t without Shaq or Gasol or Fish? Yup.

[sick_brah07]

is it safe to say kobe would be in prison right now if he wasn't a multi millionaire?

In all seriousness with the way kobe is he probably would have been successful in any way he went he has a crazy obsession with work... and im not the biggest fan on bean but you gotta give him credit in the dedication department

In regards to shaq i just tried to look up highlights of the finals for him against dallas and cant even find a highlight reel lol i honestly never realised how much he fell off that series

[kennethgriffin]

Since Shaq played with Kobe during his prime years (24-31), I would guess that most of his success would've happened during this time period. But Shaq went to a finals before his prime in 1995 and won a ring after his prime in 2006 without Kobe. You could've put a lot of other great wings in the same situation Kobe was in and Shaq still would've won rings.

Is it safe to say Kobe didn't do sh*t without Shaq or Gasol or Fish? Yup.

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaq

[ralph_i_el]

and you were beating off to kobe beating off to mj in the playoffs

yeah, my hobby as a kid was hitchhiking up to Philly so I could look in black families windows and jack-off at night. Didn't get very far, being pre-pubescent.

[ClipperRevival]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaq

Ah shaddup you biased Kobe fan. I could care less about your opinions because you bring no objectivity to the table.

[DonDadda59]

We just gon make believe Beans wasn't an NBA player in '04-'07 or this whole decade?

How many losing seasons does this man have without Derek Fisher on his squad?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

Sure it did. He was a better defender amid the Laker 3-peat years, and had a bit more feel with his back to the basket game, as per P-Jax.

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime

so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

He faced better teams, had worse teammates, and wasn't as good as he was from 2000-02, his ACTUAL peak.

The WCF against Utah for example... NVE shot 23% and failed to average double figures in scoring while also having less points than shots. Eddie Jones, Shaq's second option, averaged just 15 ppg on 41% shooting. Hell, even Kobe shot 37% at ~10 ppg.

Shaq's a legend, but not a savior. You don't have these unrealistic expectations for Kobe, so why on Shaq?

face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS

Great defense, great rebounding and this:

Everything starts with dealing with Shaquille," Dallas coach Avery Johnson says.

O'Neal has not only played smartly and efficiently but at times has been as dominant as ever. Despite double-teams, sometimes when he doesn't have the ball, he is averaging 14.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 3.2 assists and shooting 66.7%.

"Everyone knows that he's 34 years old and he's not the young Shaq-be-nimble, Shaq-be-quick, but we know we wouldn't be at this point without him,"Wade says. "He's the biggest part of what we have here in Miami."

He wasn't a second option to Antoine Walker just because you said he is.

he never legit won without kobe

Kobe never won without a big man
Kobe never won without PJax (Shaq has)

These arguments are never ending, because they're stupid to begin with.

[ShawkFactory]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaq

Not Jordan style. Lebron style minus a couple rebounds.

[guy]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

It's really not weird at all. Shaq's elite seasons were from about 93-06 while Kobe's were 00-13 i.e. ages 21-34 for both. Sounds about normal for most great NBA players that have good longevity. For Shaq, 8 of those 14 seasons came with Kobe. For Kobe, only 5 of those 14 seasons came with Shaq. On top of that, Shaq's best teams outside of those 8 seasons were probably the 95 and 96 Magic, who faced and lost to the 95 Rockets and 96 Bulls, two teams that were clearly better then any team Kobe's teams without Shaq beat and probably better then any of Kobe's teams without Shaq in general (definitely 96 Bulls).

So not weird at all. Has pretty much everything to do with timing. If Kobe is close to or on Shaq's level, he should've accomplished more given the situations.

[kennethgriffin]

Not Jordan style. Lebron style minus a couple rebounds.

a) kobes numbers were the same as 96 jordans run, and better overall than jordans 98 playoffs

b) you cant just look at stats. kobe had gasol. jordan had pippen, rodman, kukoc, and harper a season removed from 20ppg

[red1]

is it safe to say kobe would be in prison right now if he wasn't a multi millionaire?

I demand an answer to this question

[kennethgriffin]

I demand an answer to this question

yeah probly. he's black


but he never ends up in that colorado hotel for the surgery had he never played basketball