Props to Indiana for rebuilding the way you are supposed to

[ihatetimthomas]

Hey dumbass, 3 of Miami's five starters were either drafted or originally developed by the team (Wade, Haslem, Chalmers). Just FYI.


Also, there's no such thing as building a team "the right way". A GM is suppose to utilize whatever resources that are available to put out the best product. The only thing that matters is the end result. I do however credit the Bird and the Pacers rebuilding without obvious tanking.

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

[PJR]

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case?

[branslowski]

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case?

So, if me and u were the same skill level players both playing our first year in the big leagues, and I ended with 22HR 100RBI on .305% BA WITHOUT HGH basically playing the right way, while you took HGH and ended up with 40HR 160RBI on .421% BA, yea, u played better, but would you expect the fans to respect you If you cheated? Even if u won MVP there will never be respect for you because of the route u took. There may never be asterisks placed in the books by ur name, but the world would know what you did, and public perception outweighs anything in a book.

Get my drift?.

[PJR]

So, if me and u were the same skill level players both playing our first year in the big leagues, and I ended with 22HR 100RBI on .305% BA WITHOUT HGH basically playing the right way, while you took HGH and ended up with 40HR 160RBI on .421% BA, yea, u played better, but would you expect the fans to respect you If you cheated? Even if u won MVP there will never be respect for you because of the route u took. There may never be asterisks placed in the books by ur name, but the world would know what you did, and public perception outweighs anything in a book.

Get my drift?.

No, I don't get your drift. That shit made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nor does it even apply to this topic at hand. No one is talking about cheating, here. You can't cheat the NBA CBA. It's iron clad.

[ihatetimthomas]

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case?

Maybe the "right way" was a poor choice of words. Maybe the most effective way? The way teams of their market should model themselves after? The way the Pacers rebuilt is a model of exactly how a small market team should rebuild. Tell me another way that is more effective.

I do not think the end result is indicative of rebuilding the "right way". It is not easy to win a title or make it to the finals. The best you can hope for is to at least be a contender for a title year in year out. A lot must go right to win a a title. Pacers have put themselves in a place where they can contend for many years.

[russwest0]

What you call a real team like Oklahoma, Chicago where most of their players are draft picks unlike Miami players who quit on their old team because they can't win it.

rep

[All Net]

Larry legend!

[plowking]

Hey dumbass, 3 of Miami's five starters were either drafted or originally developed by the team (Wade, Haslem, Chalmers). Just FYI.


Also, there's no such thing as building a team "the right way". A GM is suppose to utilize whatever resources that are available to put out the best product. The only thing that matters is the end result. I do however credit the Bird and the Pacers rebuilding without obvious tanking.

Agreed. Pacers did a good job, Miami just did a better job rebuilding. Hence we did it the right way too. Just better.

[comerb]

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

There is a "right way" for some markets, and multiple ways for others. So as far as Indiana is concerned...yes. As far Miami, LA, NY, Boston etc is concerned… no.

[iamgine]

I feel like Pacers just basically lucked out with Hibbert. His value is rare and can't just be replaced with any other good players. Without Hibbert, they're not a serious contender and basically is a 2nd round exit team for a long time. Which is actually the worst team possible.

So yeah it's more luck than "rebuilding the right way"

[Rose'sACL]

Miami got Pat Riley and they drafted Wade. I am sure both Wade and Bosh told lebron not to stay in cleveland otherwise they won't come as no top 20 player wants to play in cleveland.
The right way to build a team is to build a team that can win. I hate seeing all these lakers fans talking shit when Celtics and Lakers have done the same as Miami and won a lot of rings.
The reason lakers fans hate it because Miami is a way smaller market compared to LA and yet Miami pulled it off. As you can see now a days, lakers fans make 10 threads everytime a player who left them has a bad game.
Unless you're in a location which most players hate, you have no reason to not go after big free agents and try to win it.
These people who are bitching about miami will leave their current job if they got a better job. Owners don't give 2 shits about the players. Why should players care about these owners ?
Team owners who don't try their hardest to win clearly take their fans for granted and these same fans talk shit about teams like lakers, celtics and now miami because their team owners didn't care enough.

[ihatetimthomas]

I feel like Pacers just basically lucked out with Hibbert. His value is rare and can't just be replaced with any other good players. Without Hibbert, they're not a serious contender and basically is a 2nd round exit team for a long time. Which is actually the worst team possible.

So yeah it's more luck than "rebuilding the right way"

The reason they even got Hibbert was because they were smart and entered the rebuilding mode early and dealt Jermaine O'Neal away while they still could. They got to rid of JO's contract and they got expiring contracts, a few guys who could play, and that 17th pick turning into Hibbert in return. They dealt him when they could actually get some value in return. Thats not luck, thats smart decisions.

No shit luck has a lot do with it. I never disputed that. Players drafted and acquired turning into big time players is necessary to build a contending team. But great teams are not just made on luck. Its made by the decisions made as a collective whole. You also have to set your team up correctly in order for that "luck" to even be realized. Had they not rebuilt the way they did, they likely do not max out Hibbert. Maybe Hibbert doesnt even turn into the player he is.

[ihatetimthomas]

[QUOTE=comerb]There is a "right way" for some markets, and multiple ways for others. So as far as Indiana is concerned...yes. As far Miami, LA, NY, Boston etc is concerned

[hawkfan]

This year they are going to be overpaying at least 3 guys (Hibbert, George, West) and possibly Granger if they re-sign him to a big deal.

[InspiredLebowski]

This year they are going to be overpaying at least 3 guys (Hibbert, George, West) and possibly Granger if they re-sign him to a big deal.

oh hawkfan, never change. you dumbass.

anyway, I agree with what PJR said, there is no "right way," other than the one that gets you a ring. you can say we're small market (we're actually mid-market, but the differences don't matter in the NBA) and we can't get FAs, but we got David West and all we'd done is get knocked out by the Bulls in 5. no, he's not Lebron, yes, he was coming off an ACL, but he was a multiple time All Star that signed with the Pacers on a two year deal. that was a coup.

he'd have been restricted and been coming back regardless, but we re-signed George with absolutely no fuss at all. no peeps about him wanting a bigger market. over the summer when there was that ESPN led push to try and get him to the Lakers ("c'mon Paul, you're a Cali kid, how could you say no to the Lakers?!") every single thing he said was about wanting to stay.

it's something I've long thought true since Donnie Walsh built those strong 90s teams. if you instill a culture of winning and trust you'll be able to build a team. not the shit where the owner says "oh man, 2 years of 36 wins, everybody's fired, need a new direction." if it's GM X trying to pull off the plan Bird did how quick does he get dumped before he's able to see it through? there's only a handful of guys that have the Larry Bird gravitas to be able to say "be patient, I got this."

there's a top down philosophy here and every single person has bought in, it's a college program in the NBA. and I mean EVERY person, the ****ing popcorn vendors are appreciated and feel like a cog in the wheel. this is the most "together" team I've ever seen in Indiana. THAT is the hard part to accomplish. Lance Stephenson gets drafted to almost anywhere else that kid's outta the league. now he lives in Indy full time and was texting Bird every day last year during Bird's sabbatical and now he's killing it.

Pritchard did some local radio around draft time and they asked him what they look for in a prospect. he immediately said cultural fit. not wingspan or scoring instincts or vertical leap or whatever other BS. because this is as close to a family as you can find in pro sports. guys want to get paid, they always will and always should. but they also want to get paid by a boss they trust to play with teammates they enjoy being around.

putting together a bunch of talent is hard. putting together a bunch of talent that becomes a team is even harder. and you can't do either with the way the majority of NBA franchises operate with rotating coaches and GMs. I hope that's what other teams "steal" from us, the league'd be better for it.