Was the 2004 Finals the biggest NBA upset ever?

[JohnnySic]

I dont think it was an upset at all. Not one bit.

Shaq and Kobe may have been the 2 best players on the floor, bur Shaq had declined a bit from his '01 peak, and Kobe was still in his ballhog stage.

Payton was just about washed up; Malone was old and injured. Fisher a good role player. The rest of the team was trash.

The '04 Pistons were a well-oiled machine; Rip, Billups, Sheed, Big Ben, and Prince were all in their prime/young. Hunter and Okur were good reserves. The Pistons were a flat out better team; the fact that they almost won again the following year would demostrate this.

[#1SportsFan86]

Game 1 shocked me because I didn't see the Pistons taken game 1 they way the did...I would love to see the 03-04 Pistons vs the 07-08 Celtics.

[Anaximandro1]

fact is kobe was the 1st option from 2001 on

look at the FGA's... shaq was the #1 option only from 1996-2000

finals mvps are only for 1 series. kobe was mvp for the important series

Wow

Revisionist history at its finest.

2000-2001

Regular Season

PPG Shaq 28.7 (57.2%) Kobe 28.5 (46.4%)
FTA Shaq 13.1 Kobe 8.2

Playoffs

PPG Shaq 30.4 (55.5%) Kobe 29.4 (46.9%)
FTA Shaq 12.5 Kobe 9.3

2001-2002

Regular Season

PPG Shaq 27.2 (57.9%) Kobe 25.2 (46.9%)
FTA Shaq 10.7 Kobe 7.4

Playoffs

PPG Shaq 28.5 (52.9%) Kobe 26.6 (43.4%)
FTA Shaq 10.9 Kobe 7.6

[Harion]

griffmoney needs to be banned for good. the idiocy of this guy is just too painful to bear. not even an ignore option can do it anymore.

[Rake2204]

I can never resist commenting on the 2004 Detroit Pistons NBA Championship. I may have been a little skeptical of the national media before the 2004 finish, but it was these Finals that really pushed me over the edge. At the time I dismissed it as my own bias, but I was still wondering just how so many experts and analysts could have been so quick to write off the Pistons that year.

After the Rasheed Wallace deal, the Pistons closed that regular season going something like 22-5. It was during this stretch they held five consecutive opponents under 70 points (and a 6th scored 71). They were kind of dominant, to be honest. Surely, the low scores could be attributed to a slower pace, but the Pistons were still pounding teams. The Pistons were not an offensive powerhouse, but the idea that they were offensively hapless is a fallacy.

In fact, I even remember ESPN analysts going as far as to critique the manner with which the Pistons won their Eastern Conference Championship. I'm not speaking of their basketball execution either. I mean guys were pointing to the Pistons celebrating their Conference Championship as a sign that they were henceforth completely satisfied and would not be able to muster the will to win a ring. They then showed a clip of Karl Malone not celebrating at all after LA's Western Conference Championship and insinuated that that was in part why the Lakers would steam roll the Pistons in the Finals. "They were all business."

Someone mentioned that Ben Wallace was able to defend Shaquille O'Neal one-one-one in the Finals that year. I think it was more that Detroit "let" Ben guard Shaq one-on-one, not that he necessarily was able to handle him. Shaq kind of went off. He shot a very good percentage throughout the series and was generally unstoppable when he had the ball. He just did not sustain an attack. Whether that was his fault of his team's I suppose is open for debate.

Also, one of those reasons we can't always trust what statistics tell us, I'm not sure it'd be fair to say the Spurs and Pistons were even defensively because they both allowed 84.3 points per game during the 2004 regular season. The Pistons were a great defensive team before the trade deadline. They became an awesome defensive team after. Therefore, I don't feel full season statistics are a legitimate representation of the championship Pistons' prowess.

I love to think that the Pistons/Lakers Finals was the greatest NBA upset. And maybe in terms of how many people counted out the Pistons beforehand that may make that statement true in some respect. However, I maintain the Pistons were better than a lot of people ever presumed they were. Conversely, I believe the aging Lakers were actually worse than a lot of people believed (Karl Malone and Gary Payton in particular).

[Rashard]

There was no way on God's green earth David Stern was going to have a player who was on trial for rape at the time hoisting the Larry O'brien Trophy at the end of the '04 Finals. Just was not going to happen. He had the image of his league to uphold. Hence, the +60 FTA's in favor of the Pistons for the series. The Lakers attempted 111 FT's for the series to the Pistons 171 FTA's. The Pistons connected on 119 FT's to the Lakers 71. +48 points at the line for the Pistons. Game. Set. Match.

[Heat007]

There was no way on God's green earth David Stern was going to have a player who was on trial for rape at the time hoisting the Larry O'brien Trophy at the end of the '04 Finals. Just was not going to happen. He had the image of his league to uphold. Hence, the +60 FTA's in favor of the Pistons for the series. The Lakers attempted 111 FT's for the series to the Pistons 171 FTA's. The Pistons connected on 119 FT's to the Lakers 71. +48 points at the line for the Pistons. Game. Set. Match.

That's what happens when you rely on a player like Kobe instead of Shaq to win you a series against a great defense.

Kobe has looked god awful against the really good defenses throughout his career. Much worse than other star players.

So as soon as they relied on him to beat a good defense. It was Game.Set.Match.

Goodnight.

[Rashard]

That's what happens when you rely on a player like Kobe instead of Shaq to win you a series against a great defense.

Kobe has looked god awful against the really good defenses throughout his career. Much worse than other star players.

So as soon as they relied on him to beat a good defense. It was Game.Set.Match.

Goodnight.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth debate about this because frankly it's a waste of time and effort. You have your opinion and I have mine. You've stated yours and I've stated mine. You wont change my mind and I wont change yours. That's the end of it for me. However, I will say this. It's much easier to play "stifling" defense when you can do so without having to worry about being called for fouls.

[ginobli2311]

not sure.

but it was the worst finals ever by an all time great player ever.

Can't play worse than Kobe. Not only did he just play bad, but he chose to ignore the team and winning in order to prove he could so something he clearly couldn't.

It was the culmination of Kobe's frustration that he just wasn't as good as Shaq and wanted to prove the world the Lakers could win his way. Sadly, 03 and 04 prove they couldn't.

Its a shame. We could have easily and probably should have seen 5 titles in a row....maybe even more.

But Kobe couldn't handle playing the right way. He wanted more glory....instead....he got a runner up trophy.

[ginobli2311]

There was no way on God's green earth David Stern was going to have a player who was on trial for rape at the time hoisting the Larry O'brien Trophy at the end of the '04 Finals. Just was not going to happen. He had the image of his league to uphold. Hence, the +60 FTA's in favor of the Pistons for the series. The Lakers attempted 111 FT's for the series to the Pistons 171 FTA's. The Pistons connected on 119 FT's to the Lakers 71. +48 points at the line for the Pistons. Game. Set. Match.

Really?

What a revisionist history approach. Maybe the Lakers shot less free throws because Kobe froze out Shaq and Kobe jacked up terrible jumper after terrible jumper.

Wow. The stans are blaming the refs for 04 now? Just when you think their assertions can't get worse they drop this one on you.

You would then admit that the 02 kings series was rigged right?

[az00m]

impossible

malone and payton were finished

shaq was asking for 30mill/season

they would have been 10 mill over the cap with just 2 players.

and people forget that shaq weighd 350 pounds before getting in shape for miami...

he would have still been his same old fat POS self with no motivation from 05 - 07

Thats why shaq won one with an equally better pg when he left the lakers.

You're stupid

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Yeah I guess, considering how favored the Lakers were, they were the overwhelming favorites!

[ShaqAttack3234]

Spurs had a better team defense rating than Detroit. But, I guess Detroit had the better defenders to contain Kobe.

Personally, I think that Detroit was better defensively after they traded for Sheed.

Yeah, and in the following year D-Wade shot over 50% against the Pistons in the playoffs, and would have beat them and won the title if Wade didn't get hurt late in that series.

Then a year later Wade shot 62% against that Pistons defense in that playoff series.. In a year when the Pistons still had the #1 defense in the league and a franchise record 64 wins.

Wade always looked great against that defense and took em to school.

Detroit wasn't quite as good defensively as they were in the second half of the 2004 season and the playoffs with Sheed when they were the best defensive team I've ever seen. But the 2005 and 2006 Piston team's defenses were actually top 3 and top 5, respectively.

but he was the reason they lost the series

No he wasn't. Look at the disparity between their point guards and to a lesser extent, their power forwards. He hurt the team that series, but no way was he the sole reason.

[Mr. Jabbar]

it was

[Ne 1]

Yeah I guess, considering how favored the Lakers were, they were the overwhelming favorites!

Actually looking back, I'm surprised that the '04 team even got to the Finals. Shaq was out of shape and often injured that year, Karl Malone was 40 years old, Payton was also aging and didn't buy into Phil's system, Kobe who was going through the trial, flying back and forth, sometimes in the same day as a game. Not to mention they had a really weak bench. The Kobe-Shaq feud was still going on and was more heated than ever. Malone and Payton both called Shaq out on sandbagging, Kobe accused Malone of hitting on his wife. All while that was a transitioning year for the team.

Talk about distractions. If anyone remembers that Finals, Chauncey absolutely destroyed Payton, Malone got injured in the WCF and then Detroit's defense basically doubled and tripled Kobe whenever he had the ball forcing someone else to beat them. Yeah the Lakers were talented, but even as a Laker fan, I have to say that team had horrible chemistry. Kobe and Shaq carried them, but man, no team that I can remember had that many problems going on.