Charles Barkley 36pts 12rbs 3asts vs Spurs G 5 1993 Playoffs

[Loco 50]

You're right DRob was shocked after that series because he had given Hakeem the business throughout his career prior to that, but Hakeem was able to take it to another level. Props to him.

That being said:

Hakeem - Drexler, Cassell

Barkley - KJ, Majerle

Malone - Stockton, Hornacek

Dave - Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson

And half this board wonders why players are team hopping cowards nowadays.

[ImKobe]

You're right DRob was shocked after that series because he had given Hakeem the business throughout his career prior to that, but Hakeem was able to take it to another level. Props to him.

That being said:

Hakeem - Drexler, Cassell

Barkley - KJ, Majerle

Malone - Stockton, Hornacek

Dave - Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson

And half this board wonders why players are team hopping cowards nowadays.

You're acting like those are the best guys David played with, he had Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman his MVP season, he had good players like Dale Ellis, Rod Strickland and Terry Cummings on his previous teams as well, it's not like he was carrying garbage.

[Loco 50]

You're acting like those are the best guys David played with, he had Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman his MVP season, he had good players like Dale Ellis, Rod Strickland and Terry Cummings on his previous teams as well, it's not like he was carrying garbage.

No, I'm not. I'm saying those were the starting guards facilitating the offense in the series that these players met.

[AussieSteve]

No, I'm not. I'm saying those were the starting guards facilitating the offense in the series that these players met.

DRob may have had less help but it doesn't change the fact that his production usually dipped in the POs, whereas the true greats of the era usually performed as well or better in the POs as they did in the RS.

I can't name a single performance by DRob in the POs that stands out as being particularly memorable or great (maybe you can as you are much more across his career than me). For Barkley I can name 5 games from 1993 alone.

1. 19 point Q4 in game 5 against spurs (OP)
2. 28/21 game 6 with series winner
3. 43/15/10 game 5 against sonics
4. 44/24 game 7 against sonics
5. 42/13 game 2 against bulls

I'm not sure that Robinson has any games in his playoff career as great as any of these 5. Maybe his 40/20 game against the suns in 96 1st round. He likely has plenty of games where his D was a decisive factor, but offensively his resume is not close Barkley, Hakeem, or most other top 20 ATGs

[Loco 50]

You are more than likely correct.

I've never been one to focus on individual performance over team performance though.

I wonder if folks understand that the Spurs as an organization were a wreck until Pop and Duncan came in. We had all the makings of a garbage franchise prior to that tandem: Cheapskate ownership, trading or letting go controversial players for below market value, changing coaches every year, and an inability to build around your franchise player.

Robinson did what he could and is the only reason the franchise was able to stay in S.A. so I'll always be thankful to him for that.

He had several opportunities to bounce to L.A. He didn't, the rest is history.

[Smoke117]

You are more than likely correct.

I've never been one to focus on individual performance over team performance though.

I wonder if folks understand that the Spurs as an organization were a wreck until Pop and Duncan came in. We had all the makings of a garbage franchise prior to that tandem: Cheapskate ownership, trading or letting go controversial players for below market value, changing coaches every year, and an inability to build around your franchise player.

Robinson did what he could and is the only reason the franchise was able to stay in S.A. so I'll always be thankful to him for that.

He had several opportunities to bounce to L.A. He didn't, the rest is history.

Robinson completely carried teams like only a handful of players ever did. You only have to look at 97 to see this. They go from 59 wins in 96 to 20 wins after he basically misses the entire season. You could surround him with bench players and he'd lead your team to 50 wins. You can count on five fingers the other players in the history of the NBA that had his kind of impact.

[Loco 50]

Robinson completely carried teams like only a handful of players ever did. You only have to look at 97 to see this. They go from 59 wins in 96 to 20 wins after he basically misses the entire season. You could surround him with bench players and he'd lead your team to 50 wins. You can count on five fingers the other players in the history of the NBA that had his kind of impact.

That dude Smoke the truth bringer.

[AussieSteve]

Robinson completely carried teams like only a handful of players ever did. You only have to look at 97 to see this. They go from 59 wins in 96 to 20 wins after he basically misses the entire season. You could surround him with bench players and he'd lead your team to 50 wins. You can count on five fingers the other players in the history of the NBA that had his kind of impact.

Absolutely, however this is a little over stated. Sean Elliot was an all star in 96 and the spurs 2nd best player. In 97 he missed 50 games. The games he did play, he was much less productive.

So they didn't just lose DRob, they lost their 2 best players. Take the two best playets of any team and they lose way more games than they win.

It's also a factor of how bad Greg Anderson was as a back up centre.

[Smoke117]

Absolutely, however this is a little over stated. Sean Elliot was an all star in 96 and the spurs 2nd best player. In 97 he missed 50 games. The games he did play, he was much less productive.

So they didn't just lose DRob, they lost their 2 best players. Take the two best playets of any team and they lose way more games than they win.

It's also a factor of how bad Greg Anderson was as a back up centre.

Sean Elliott didn't even have 1/4th of the impact Robinson had. Big Dave had a league leading 9.2 BPM in 96. Elliott had a pedestrian 2.0. If you take Robinson of the 96 team and replace him with an average center they'd probably win 30 games max. If you replace Elliot with an average SF they still win 50+ games.

[AussieSteve]

Sean Elliott didn't even have 1/4th of the impact Robinson had. Big Dave had a league leading 9.2 BPM in 96. Elliott had a pedestrian 2.0. If you take Robinson of the 96 team and replace him with an average center they'd probably win 30 games max. If you replace Elliot with an average SF they still win 50+ games.

Not disagreeing with you. Just saying that to state that "DRob took a 20 win team to 59 wins" is over stated. What you can say is the that "DRob plus an all star shooting guard took a 20 win team to 59 wins"

EDIT...
Do you think that if you took both Barkley and Dan Marjele off the 93 suns they don't drop >30 games? Marjele Is about equal to Elliot?

Fun fact... over the first two seasons that Barkley was at Phoenix, they were 109-32 with him (63.4 win pace) and 9-14 without him (32.1 win pace) was Barkley alone worth 31.3 wins?