Who are the top 2-5 Players of All-Time?

[LAZERUSS]

BTW: If you go elite rings, might as well have Bird at 2, Kobe at 3, Magic at 4? Shaq at 3?

Btw, Wilt's 1972 one is a bit overblown. great defense & a 15 ppg average. The low amount of FGA skyrocketed his FG%

Chamberlain reduced KAJ, in his greatest season, down to an intimidated shot-jacker, who couldn't hit the Grand Canyon from the ledge in the '72 WCF's, and then won a FMVP by averaging 19 ppg, 23.2 rpg, 7.4 bpg, and shooting .600 from the field, while his "second banana" West, shot .325 in that series. BTW, while Chamberlain shot .563 from the field in that entire post-season, his teammates collectively shot .414 from the field. Just how in the hell did Wilt carry that team to a 12-3 record and a title? I would say his DEFENSE was vastly UNDER-RATED.

[SHAQisGOAT]

2. Kareem
3. Russell
4./5. Bird/Magic

[DMAVS41]

I currently go;

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan

[PsychoBe]

mj
magic
bird
kareem
kobe

[ArbitraryWater]

Chamberlain reduced KAJ, in his greatest season, down to an intimidated shot-jacker, who couldn't hit the Grand Canyon from the ledge in the '72 WCF's, and then won a FMVP by averaging 19 ppg, 23.2 rpg, 7.4 bpg, and shooting .600 from the field, while his "second banana" West, shot .325 in that series. BTW, while Chamberlain shot .563 from the field in that entire post-season, his teammates collectively shot .414 from the field. Just how in the hell did Wilt carry that team to a 12-3 record and a title? I would say his DEFENSE was vastly UNDER-RATED.

West wasnt 2nd best anymore you know that... You forget Goodrich.


Defense was underrated, Knicks shot 47% as team to Lakers 42%

[kamil]

Bird
Magic
Kareem
Russell
MJ

[Deuce Bigalow]

In '69, Unseld won the MVP, and in '70 Reed won it. Wilt did not play with either.

And you are right about '69 and '70. Which just proves that it was a failed strategy. Not to mention that Chamberlain was clearly the best center on the floor in those two playoff runs, and the rest of the Lakers puked all over the floor in both.

And Wilt holds MUTLIPLE PLAYOFF records, as well. Not to mention that a "scoring" Chamberlain had post-seasons of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg and 37 ppg. Or that he also had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg. Or that he also had FOUR 50+ point games, achieved in his first 26 playoff games, three of which came in "must-win" games.

Or that in his first 67 playoff games, he AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, shot .515 (in leagues that shot .421), and probably blocked 8+ shost per game. You would be hard-pressed to find ONE GOAT player who had ONE post-season SERIES, or even ONE playoff GAME with that stat-line. Or that he crushed the likes of Russell and Thurmond in those seasons.

Or that a way-past his prime Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, statistically outplayed a PEAK Kareem in '71 (and in fact, received a standing ovation as he left the floor in the last game of that series...and the game was played in Milwaukee.) Or that he dominated Kareem in the last four games of the '72 WCF's, holding a PEAK Kareem to an unfathomable .414 shooting in those four games, en route to a 4-2 series win.

Or that a Chamberlain was voted FMVP, at age 35, while his best teammate, West, shot .325 from the floor in that series.

Or the real simple fact that Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was arguably the best player on the floor in the vast majority of them. Or that in those 29 series, he was thee best center on the floor in at least 25 of them, and arguably, in ALL of them.

MVP =/= best player

'69 and '70 Jerry West was the best player in the league and you know that's true. Wilt could NOT win as a sidekick to the best player in the league twice. Kobe did it three times.

[Deuce Bigalow]

BTW: If you go elite rings, might as well have Bird at 2, Kobe at 3, Magic at 4? Shaq at 3?

Btw, Wilt's 1972 one is a bit overblown. great defense & a 15 ppg average. The low amount of FGA skyrocketed his FG%

Bird would have 3, Kareem with 4, Kobe with 4 or 5, Shaq with 3 or 4, Magic with 5.

[LAZERUSS]

MVP =/= best player

'69 and '70 Jerry West was the best player in the league and you know that's true. Wilt could NOT win as a sidekick to the best player in the league twice. Kobe did it three times.

West was NOT the best player in '69, either. Not even close. If you are going to argue against MVPs equaling the best player, Chamberlain was FAR more dominant than West was that season. Interesting too, that Unseld, Reed, and Russell all finished ahead of Wilt in the MVP balloting, and yet Chamberlain MURDERED all three in their H2H's that season. And only Unseld had a better team record, and even at that, they only went 3-3 against Wilt's Lakers. Meanwhile, while Chamberlain was slaughtering Reed, his Lakers went 5-1 against the Knicks, and while he was castrating Russell, his Lakers went 4-2 against the Celtics. Oh, and West missed 21 games that season (and the Lakers went 12-9 without him.)

And we do KNOW that, before Wilt's injury in 69-70, his new coach had asked HIM to become the focal point of the Laker offense (and NOT West.) In fact, when Chamberlain blew out his knee in the ninth game that season, he was LEADING the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%), while West was second at 30.8 ppg.

Furthermore, Wilt was arguably LA's best player in the '70 Finals, all while playing on ONE leg (23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and a staggering .625 FG%.) West was their leading scorer, but it was WILT who carried them in their must-win game six, and Chamberlain was LA's ONLY player who played well in their game seven loss.

[chazzy]

Chamberlain reduced KAJ, in his greatest season, down to an intimidated shot-jacker, who couldn't hit the Grand Canyon from the ledge in the '72 WCF's

KAJ still outscored Wilt by 23ppg on better efficiency for the series. Did Kawhi outplay Lebron last finals?

[LAZERUSS]

KAJ still outscored Wilt by 23ppg on better efficiency for the series. Did Kawhi outplay Lebron last finals?

Kareem shot .414 in the last four games of that series (three of them losses, and one was a crushing blowout loss, and the other a Wilt-led come-from-behind win in the clinching game six.) Virtually EVERY written account at the time of that series credited Wilt with OUTPLAYING Kareem. Time Magazine hailed his play in that series, as a DECISIVE beatdown by Chamberlain.

It was not Wilt's job to score at that point in his career, and he only missed 20 shots the entire series. Meanwhile, KAJ missed 107, the vast majority coming in those last four games. Keep in mind that Kareem had shot .574 against the NBA in the regular season, and yet could only shoot .457 against an old Wilt (and again, only .414 in the last four pivotal games of that series.)

[ArbitraryWater]

KAJ still outscored Wilt by 23ppg on better efficiency for the series. Did Kawhi outplay Lebron last finals?

It's ABSURD to what idiotic lengths ljauber goes.... Kareem literally averaged 34 PPG supposed to Wilt's 11 PPG, and this guy is here acting like Wilt outplayed Kareem... pathetic.


His constant H2H Posts bother me, in fact, if we're being realistic, Kareem outplayed&owned him by far. 34 PPG >>>> 11 PPG. Showed him up.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Duncan
5. Bird/Shaq/Russell (undecided)

Duncan over Wilt Shaq and Bird???

[SamuraiSWISH]

I only go by what I've seen:

2) LeBron
3) Shaq
4) Kobe
5) Hakeem
6) Duncan
7) Barkley
8) Malone
9) Garnett
10) Wade

[chazzy]

It was not Wilt's job to score at that point in his career, and he only missed 20 shots the entire series. Meanwhile, KAJ missed 107, the vast majority coming in those last four games. Keep in mind that Kareem had shot .574 against the NBA in the regular season, and yet could only shoot .457 against an old Wilt (and again, only .414 in the last four pivotal games of that series.)

Sounds a lot like a young Kawhi holding Lebron to .447 shooting when he averaged .565 against the rest of the NBA. Like Wilt, it's not his job to score so he scored less than Lebron, but he even out rebounded him as well.