So Lebron intimidated and bullied the Warriors after Game 4?

[3ball]

LeBron would absolutely shit on the weak ass [COLOR="Red"]expansion era[/COLOR].

The higher level of euros and international players made the NBA less athletic - today's NBA also has 10 more teams, so an extra 150 players make today's diluted, watered down league than the 80's.

Btw, look at the all-star teams in 1998 - Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, Grant Hill, Penny, Pippen, Jordan, Drexler, Hakeem, David Robinson - these guys are better athletes and players than today's players.

The 80's and 90's is the modern era, but it was the UNSPACED phase of the modern era - that's a tougher time period than today's SPACED phase of the modern era.. It's statistical fact that Lebron and Curry achieve their stats WITH teammates spacing the floor (their teams take 30 threes per game), while Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spacing the floor (Bulls took 5 threes per game in 1991).

Players today are FAR [COLOR="Red"]more athletic[/COLOR] then the stiffs Jordan played back then.

Not true - the furthest dunk behind the FT line happened in the EIGHTIES by Mike Conley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXmnV0HoLE8&t=0m7s


The athleticism of humans doesn't evolve in short periods of time like you think - if that was the case, players would be dunking from the 3-point line by now.. But the FT line is still the standard, just like it was in the 70's with Dr. J, the 80's with MJ/Drexler/Pippen/Brent Barry (who all dunked from FT line in dunk contest), and today.. The FT line will be the standard for the rest of our lifetimes..

The American record for the 100 yard dash is the same as when Ben Johnson ran 9.78 in 1988... The Jamaicans are the only country to go lower, and they are a severe anomaly (small island where they do secret things).. The high jump and long jump records have stood for decades.

Lebron would destroy [COLOR="Red"]the stiffs Jordan played[/COLOR] back then.

[COLOR="blue"]The wings from MJ's era match today's era man-for-man:[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR]1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe, Jamaal Mashburn, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison



[COLOR="navy"]^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars[/COLOR]
.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie deserves a little more credit than he has gotten, tbh. He averaged 31 points per game on 51% from the field in the final 5 games of the series.

Let that sink in for a second.

[3ball]

Kyrie deserves a little more credit than he has gotten, tbh. He averaged 31 points per game on 51% from the field in the final 5 games of the series.

Let that sink in for a second.

Kyrie averaged 27 ppg on 47%, which is far better than anything Pippen ever did - Pippen's playoff high is 24 ppg, in a series where Jordan averaged 45 ppg (1992 1st Round) and his high in the Finals is 21 ppg.

We know for a FACT that Kyrie's performance was more impactful than Pippen's 1996 Finals (15 ppg on 34%) or 1998 Finals (15 ppg on 41%).. So Kyrie stepped up and gave Lebron more help.

[CuterThanRubio]

After game 4, you mean when their most important player was suspended and their center got injured?

Lets pretend that they weren't up 3-1 before those events occurred



The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength

[LebronsHairline]

Curry got punked. Fact.

[3ball]

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength

The Warriors barely beat Durant/Westbrook, while the 1998 Jazz SWEPT Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers, and Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's 56-win Spurs.

So I don't think the Warriors beat the Jazz, especially considering how weak the Warriors are inside and vulnerable to physicality.

Everyone is now aware that the kryptonite for the Warriors' 3-point gimmick style is to be physical, intimidate and dominate the glass and interior - that's 90's ball all the way.. A ton of teams would beat these Warriors in playoff basketball, which is why it shouldn't be a surprise (in hindsight) that Lebron's Cavs won.

[diamenz]

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength

because athleticism is everything and iq is nothing, right?

[3ball]

because athleticism is everything and iq is nothing, right?

Klay, Curry, Draymond and Bogut aren't that athletic and they all start - tons of 90's teams were more athletic.

Brand of basketball has always been more important than athleticism, which is why Lebron and Team USA lost repeatedly in international competition to unathletic euros - they didn't place first in 2002, 2004, or 2006, despite having GOAT advantage in talent and athleticism.

[AintNoSunshine]

High school kids today be able to do Dunk Contest winning dunks in the 80s

Nuff said.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

LeBron in the 80s/90s averages 34/10/10

[dankok8]

The floor setup in no-spacing environments (where Lebron's teammates AREN'T spacing the floor for him with 3-pointers) was completely different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif - penetration is not physically possible with so many defenders waiting in the paint, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange.

So your list of Lebron's skills excluded the most important thing required of good perimeter scorers in no-spacing environments - midrange shooting ability - this is how most points were scored back then, which means Lebron's horrible midrange efficiency would hurt him.
.

Ok so if this is true then how did Nique who is again less strong than Lebron, a worse shooter from long-range, and with far less court vision DOMINATE the 80's and 90's offensively? And Drexler who had better court vision but was even smaller and not a great shooter...

[dankok8]

I will give 3ball credit in that humans evolve very slowly and that today's best athletes aren't inherently superior to those of the earlier decades by any measurable amount. The gap is likely due to better diet, exercise, health practices and equipment rather than genetics. Guys like Wilt, Russell, and Dr J doing what they did back then would do even better with today's technology. I have said this many times.

I think it would be stupendous to rank Lebron ahead of Jordan all time. He just doesn't measure up in total accomplishments. However, comparing them as players one against the other there is no right or wrong answer. Lebron's legendary performances have put him in the same tier as Jordan.