Best Off-Ball players in the last 30 years?

[3ball]

Like they could move without the ball, make one quick move, and then score? Players who could fit in various offenses, without getting in other peoples way?

[L.A. Jazz]

The whole 2014 Spurs team. they all moved, passed, moved constantly. Miami couldnt find them.

[3ball]

The whole 2014 Spurs team. they all moved, passed, moved constantly. Miami's couldnt keep up with them.

Each Spur chipped in - No player in particular from the Spurs displayed great off-ball talent or skill, or anything near the best in 30 years (the title of the thread).... The Spurs off-ball talent was the same as the Heat's.. The Heat's talent was just underutilized because it's off-ball play lacked the strategic sophistication of the Spurs.

Keep in mind that the Spurs only played great offensively against the Heat... only the Heat... all their other opponents held them in check..

Not only were the Heat the only team to allow the Spurs play great offensively, but the Heat's offense happened to score by far the least points of any Spurs opponent - this worst offense actually hurt them as as much as their defense and in more ways than the obvious.

A better offense can limit the Spurs offensive momentum by not letting the Spurs get consecutive buckets all the time, which gets their confidence, adrenaline, optimism and energy going - it's easier to score (or do anything) with those things... It's easier for a fighter to have confidence to go in for the kill if he knows he isn't getting hit back, or to keep beating the crap out of a helpless victim with increasing intensity..

It's not a coincidence that the Spurs could do these things and have more confidence and a better offense against the Heat than anyone else - the Heat's offense was the most limp and therefore could curb the Spurs' momentum the least.. So no surprise that the Spurs momentum boiled over and made it harder for the Heat's defense than it would have if the Heat's offense didn't generate by far the least number of points of any Spurs opponent.

So the Heat's offense was figured out by the Spurs, who had been heartbroken the previous year, and the Heat's suboptimal offense got exposed in the Finals... This is a fact.

And this is what Chalmers refers to when he says he'll be better next year - he feels he'll get to playmake more, which is better than his normal spot-duty, sporadically-used ball-handler he was last year... So the Heat's offense might be a little worse overall, but it will be better utilized than when Lebron's need to play on-ball a little too much prevented players from playing to their strengths... And you never know, the Heat offense might not end up being a little worse next year - it should be interesting with Bosh getting bumped up to permanent #2 status and probably more than just a floor-spreader... and of course with Wade's health and new status as the lead guy again.
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[Marchesk]

Can posters be banned for stating completely false information? For example, listing Lebron as one of the best off-ball players.

[aj1987]

And this is what Chalmers refers to when he says he'll be better next year - he feels he'll get to playmake more, which is better than his normal spot-duty, sporadically-used ball-handler he was last year.
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You've obviously never seen the Heat play a lot. Dude is a fat POS, who has the IQ of a rock. Acts like he's the best PG in the league and plays like a D-Leaguer.

Also, what's with you constantly taking shots at LeBron? It's becoming a bit pathetic, TBH. If LeBron prevented Bosh from playing to his strengths, what explains his pathetic defense and rebounding? Shitmers low IQ and crap defense? etc..


Miller and Allen are probably in the top tier when it comes to off-ball play. LeBron? LOL! Dude is decent. Nothing more than that.

[imdaman99]

You've obviously never seen the Heat play a lot. Dude is a fat POS, who has the IQ of a rock. Acts like he's the best PG in the league and plays like a D-Leaguer.

Also, what's with you constantly taking shots at LeBron? It's becoming a bit pathetic, TBH. If LeBron prevented Bosh from playing to his strengths, what explains his pathetic defense and rebounding? Shitmers low IQ and crap defense? etc..


Miller and Allen are probably in the top tier when it comes to off-ball play. LeBron? LOL! Dude is decent. Nothing more than that.

Your avatar says you are a Heat fan but you're obviously another retarded branstan.

The Heat don't win 2 rings without Bosh's "pathetic defense".

Duncan had 1 dominant game against him, it happens. But Bosh blocked Parker many times and he was a big part in the team defense. Sure this year, the Heat got exposed on defense... but give the Spurs ball movement and 3 point shooting credit. I know for a fact that has been the Heat's achilles heel these last 4 years since teams with great ball movement gave them trouble.

Go log in with your other account lebronx*rings

OP mentioned bran, but no one takes OP seriously anyway. Bran's name does not belong in this thread.

[fpliii]

Not the best, but Wade's improved substantially in that regard in the past few years. He'll probably be in more of a ball-dominant role this season, but he's adept both with and without the ball at this point IMO.

[aj1987]

Your avatar says you are a Heat fan but you're obviously another retarded branstan.

You should be the last one to talk. Around 90% of your retarded posts are of you hating on the Heat/LeBron.

The Heat don't win 2 rings without Bosh's "pathetic defense".

Have you been living in a cave the past 2 years? Or did you confuse someone else with Bosh?

Duncan had 1 dominant game against him, it happens. But Bosh blocked Parker many times and he was a big part in the team defense. Sure this year, the Heat got exposed on defense... but give the Spurs ball movement and 3 point shooting credit. I know for a fact that has been the Heat's achilles heel these last 4 years since teams with great ball movement gave them trouble.

Holy shit, you're an idiot. Convenient of you to forget about the ECF. Duncan went from 18/9 on 50% TS to 19/12 on 55% TS. He had two bad games and if it wasn't for those two games, his averages would've been significantly better. Yeah, Bosh blocked 6' TP twice in a 7 game series. Even the Heat haters were saying that Bosh was getting wrecked by even average bigs. Forget about the Finals. Almost every decent big had a field day against Bosh. Roy Hibbert scored 22/10 on 61% TS against him. Let that sink in.

Go log in with your other account lebronx*rings

Unlike you, I have only one account, jimmyx.

[Burgz V2]

Lebron doesn't make quick moves when he catches it, nor does he play off-ball much.... for one, he only posts 8% of the time, which is very low, and posting is part of playing off-ball... Lebron is also only an average leaper off two feet, which hurts him as an off-ball player in comparison to the all-time greats.

average? that's completely ridiculous. Compared to who? Himself as a one-foot jumper? Do you actually know what the word "average" means?

[scm5]

I would argue that MJ is in contention for the best off-ball player ever.

[Thorpesaurous]

Reggie, Ray, and Rip, are the first guys that come to mind, but I always feel it's a little bit of an overstatement, because even though they played without the ball, the entire offense was set up to get them the ball for some of the best runs of their career. So they were sort of occupying the ball while not actually having it, because most everyone else on the team is trying to get them open, albeit by design, but still. Ray is less so the case, but that was a big part of his action in Boston.

[brandonislegend]

Why would you even put LeBron on any list involving off ball....

[OldSchoolBBall]

I would argue that MJ is in contention for the best off-ball player ever.

Seriously. Hysterical that he's not getting mentioned here at least, and that the OP had LEBRON of all people and not Jordan, who shits on James as an off-ball player.

[imdaman99]

I think both MJ and Kobe were tremendous off-ball players. The problem with Kobe was that he didn't have anyone with Pippen-like passing on his team. Brian Shaw was pretty good, but he was no Scottie.

And there's obviously the usual guys like Reggie, Rip and RayRay later in his career.

[The_Pharcyde]

Yeah Jordan is forsure up there as one of the best off the ball especially from 1996-1998 where Jordan played in the post the majority of the time

Rip Hamilton and Reggie miller are imo the 2 best