The basketball term "EuroStep" is inaccurate

[iamgine]

OP, you're comparing an entire decade to a year.

OP, it doesn't take much to know such a simple basketball moves must have been done before.

[3ball]

[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]SF's With At Least a 15 PER


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014 SF's[COLOR="White"]..............................[/COLOR]1990 SF's

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. Scottie Pippen*
Paul George.......................... James Worthy*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................. Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)

OP, you're comparing an entire decade to a year.

I think you are trolling me, but I'll play along this first time.

Your comment here is exactly what I'm talking about.. People see that the 1990 list of SF's is better than 2014, so the first thing they think of is "well, he must have pitted the entire decade of the 90's versus just one year.."

No - The 2014 vs. 1990 SF comparison is one year (2014) versus one year (1990).

But it's the same irrational logic people use - The logic used to say "well, this must be for the entire decade of the 90's" is the same logic used use to say "wow, i didn't know they did that move back then... hmmm... they didn't do it regularly".

it's amazing the way the mind will work to find a rationale, no matter now nonsensical, to satisfy what someone wants to believe.
.

[iamgine]

OP, in 1990, English and Dantley was very very old. Many others are past their prime. To say English, for example, was comparable to Ariza at that point is fair. Maybe Ariza is even better.

[oarabbus]

....SF's With At Least a 15 PER


..2014 SF's..............................1990 SF's

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. Scottie Pippen*
Paul George.......................... James Worthy*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................. Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)




I think you are trolling me, but I'll play along this first time.

Your comment here is exactly what I'm talking about.. People see that the 1990 list of SF's is better than 2014, so the first thing they think of is "well, he must have pitted the entire decade of the 90's versus just one year.."

No - The 2014 vs. 1990 SF comparison is one year (2014) versus one year (1990).

But it's the same irrational logic people use - The logic used to say "well, this must be for the entire decade of the 90's" is the same logic used use to say "wow, i didn't know they did that move back then... hmmm... they didn't do it regularly".

it's amazing the way the mind will work to find a rationale, no matter now nonsensical, to satisfy what someone wants to believe.
.

Oh, you're doing 1990 vs. 2014 specifically? The way you argue doesn't make that very clear.

In that case, you are only confirming that 2014 is stronger. Here are some guys stats in the 1990 season
Adrian Dantley: 14/4
Derrick Mckey 15/6
Ordlando Woolridge 12/3
Mark Aguirre 14/4
Jerome Kersey16/8
Pippen 16/7/5
Dominique 26/6.5

I would take each of these guys 2014 "matchup" from the list above. I'll leave it to you to look up their 2014 seasons. Way more depth than the 1990 crew, and Bird/Bron is debatable.

[hahaitme]

Have you ever thought that maybe nobody gives a sh[COLOR="Black"]it[/COLOR]?

[backb0ard]

Dude, do you also complain about how the hamburger is named when the first hamburger was originally from Connecticut and not Hamburg, Germany?

[3ball]

Oh, you're doing 1990 vs. 2014 specifically? The way you argue doesn't make that very clear.

In that case, you are only confirming that 2014 is stronger. Here are some guys stats in the 1990 season
Adrian Dantley: 14/4
Derrick Mckey 15/6
Ordlando Woolridge 12/3
Mark Aguirre 14/4
Jerome Kersey16/8
Pippen 16/7/5
Dominique 26/6.5

Those are some good numbers... The stats of the 2014 SF's looks exactly the same, only instead of being experienced HOFs, they are experienced role players..

the 1990 list has 8 HOF's plus another All-NBA player (Aguirre), but go ahead and take the role players over the HOF and all-nba players.

I highlighted the guys below that I think have the edge, but you tell me what you think - highlight which guys below you think have the edge.


[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]SF's With At Least a 15 PER


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014 SF's[COLOR="White"]..............................[/COLOR]1990 SF's

Lebron James*.................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*..................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. Scottie Pippen*
Paul George.......................... James Worthy*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................. Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)


Josh Smith had a negative offensive win share the last TWO YEARS, meaning his offense was below average... Also, comparing the championships of the 1990 crew to the 2014 crew also shows the difference.
.

[buddha]

to be honest those are pretty shitty eurosteps.

we might as well call it the Harden step because he seems to be the only person that is good at it.

[3ball]

Oh, you're doing 1990 vs. 2014 specifically? The way you argue doesn't make that very clear.

In that case, you are only confirming that 2014 is stronger. Here are some guys stats in the 1990 season
Adrian Dantley: 14/4
Derrick Mckey 15/6
Ordlando Woolridge 12/3
Mark Aguirre 14/4
Jerome Kersey16/8
Pippen 16/7/5
Dominique 26/6.5

I would take each of these guys 2014 "matchup" from the list above. I'll leave it to you to look up their 2014 seasons. Way more depth than the 1990 crew, and Bird/Bron is debatable.

Btw, here are the PPG averages of your role players:

Kawhi Leonard: 12.8
Gordon Hayward: 16.2
Nicholas Batum: 13.0
Trevor Ariza: 14.2
Josh Smith: 16.4
Andre Iguodala: 9.3
Luol Deng: 14.3
Chandler Parsons: 16.6

So why did you post the stats of the 1990 guys as if they are worse????????... they clearly are not.. you didn't think i'd look?

I know why you'd post them - it's just another example of denial and irrational logic to support what you want to believe.

The same logic you use here to say "my guy's 14ppg is better than your guy's 14ppg.... is the same logic used to say "well, he must have used the entire decade of the 90's to come up with these players".... which is the same logic used to say "wow, i didn't know they did that move back then... hmmm... they didn't do it regularly"....

It's all the same kind of denial and irrational logic to support what you want to believe.
.

[iamgine]

Whoever has the edge is not the point. The point is 2014 Ariza and 1990 English are fairly comparable. One is not much better than the other, regardless of whoever you think has the edge.

[Sarcastic]

Whoever has the edge is not the point. The point is 2014 Ariza and 1990 English are fairly comparable. One is not much better than the other, regardless of whoever you think has the edge.

People like yourself have been arguing, for quite some time, that modern wing players are more advanced than their counterparts from yesteryear. When you actually look deeper at it, it's obvious that they are quite even, with 1990s actually being slightly better.

[KobesFinger]

Why are you called 3ball if you hate modern basketball so much? Why aren't you called floorbound or undersized or something?

[3ball]

Whoever has the edge is not the point. The point is 2014 Ariza and 1990 English are fairly comparable. One is not much better than the other, regardless of whoever you think has the edge.

this is that lack of knowledge again.

they don't play anything alike... English was a 26.0% usage player in 1990, while Ariza was a 17.8% usage player - massive difference.

Ariza is a play-finisher (hits 3's... gets assisted for finishes), while English created his own shot as a standard.

English could be a legit 3rd option in 1990, maybe a 2nd option (and in his prime he was an All-NBA #1 option and elite scorer).

You have to understand the massive gap between these two players - English ROUTINELY had between a 6.0 and 9.0 Offensive Win Share (OWS) - this means his offensive contribution was WAAAAY above average (elite) - literally one of the best scorers in the league....

Otoh, Ariza's OWS has been between negative 0.7 and positive 2.5 every year - do you know how much of a gap that is from English's range???... Ariza's OWS in 2014 was 4.3, by far his career high - it was his first year above 2.5 and he's had two seasons with a negative OWS....

The two players are so different, that you can't compare their respective Ortg or OWS because their USAGE is so much different - you can only compare OWS and Ortg to other players in the same usage class.
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[Lebron23]

All of your posts are agenda driven. and always taking a subtle shot at Lebron. You are a guy who's in his 30's. Stop being a narcissistic prick. If you don't like modern basketball. Build a time machine, and get the F*ck out of this forum.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yea, Baylor was doing eurosteps in the 60s, Dave Bing too, got Dr J doing it in the 70s, Jordan did it plenty, Magic too, dude in my avatar did it many times... Yet some young, ignorant people will keep on thinking that every move was invented today, that basketball was nothing before... when they don't even know what they're talking about.

Shit, just for you to see, this fool named Chris Palmer, a freaking ESPN writer, was tweeting that crossovers didn't exist in the 1980s and back A ****in crossover! Move where you switch directions/the ball to the opposite hand... And just because dribbling "rules" were stricter, doesn't mean it didn't exist, lmfao. I can post countless footage from players like Tiny Archibald, Michael Jordan, Pete Maravich, Tim Hardaway, Oscar Robertson, Dwayne Washington, Fat Lever, Archie Clark, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, so on, pulling some great crossovers (even without carrying/palming) yet some clueless folks will keep saying dumb shit like that...