All Time Draft Round 1 Eastern Conference 1vs16 and 8vs9

[Gotterdammerung]

First of all I would like to thanks BarkleyNash for doing nice job not only for the playoffs but for the whole tournament..

And also to Gotter.. May the best team win

First of all matchup wise

Frazier - will be guarded by Artest to lessen his playmaking ability
S.Jones - guarded by Price
King - guarded by T-Mac. (If T-Mac can't handle King, I will put Artest on him and substitute AR defending Frazier or Sam Jones)
Duncan - guarded by Ibaka
Reed - guarded by Shaq

Offensive Strategy

Will stick to my original plan on putting the pressure down low with Shaq backdown and perimeter shooter waiting for the kickout pass. If not working that's when T-Mac will do his magic. Penetrating the defense against S. Jones.

Thanks to BarkleyNash for all the hard work, and good luck HangintheAir

As to your adjustment...
It's a novel adjustment, but there's a reason Sam Jones is actually my 2nd or 3rd option:

More than any other offensive move, Jones owned the bank shot. He was deadly with it from either side or anywhere around the key. Jones had developed it while he was in high school because he couldn't make a layup. He had spent hours perfecting the shot by aiming at the strips on the backboard until it became instinctive. In the latter part of his career, while most of the top players preferred to hit only net with their shots, Jones continued to use the backboard, drawing smiles from fans but not from opponents.
Another of Jones's distinguishing characteristics was his ability to move without the ball. It was almost routine to have Bill Russell pull down an offensive rebound, turn, and fire a pass to Jones, who, standing alone, would send another bank shot through the hoop.
"You can't stand still," he explained. "When the ball is shot, the defensive man has to turn his head to see where the rebound is going. When I see we have the rebound, I go to another position. The man who is guarding me has his back to me now and he doesn't know I've moved. He has to turn around and look for me. You only need a second to get a shot off."
He also possessed a supreme confidence in his ability to play against the league's best, even the mountainous Chamberlain. "Look, I know Chamberlain is going to block some shots on me," Jones once told The Sporting News. "But I also know he isn't going to do it enough times a game to make any real difference. If I can get to the spot I like on the floor before the man who is guarding me, I'm going to score."

That kind of confidence bloomed during the 1964-65 season, when Jones finished fourth in the NBA in scoring with 25.9 ppg. He made his third All-Star appearance and earned the first of three consecutive selections to the All-NBA Second Team. Jones said later that he never thought about missing, only about the ball going into the hoop.

http://www.nba.com/history/legends/sam-jones/

In other words, he'll eat Mark Price alive.

[Buffalobraves]

Okay okay lets take it easy there's no way I'm getting upset this round (hopefully).

I think that my team gets a pretty clean win against Demitri's and I'm going to start with some match ups for tonight to break down why:

Wade vs Payton:

I think flash would have to be the main creator for Demitri's team along with Pippen. Plain and simple Wade would have to work for every bucket he got with Payton in full defensive mode (because were not asking a ton from him on offense). Payton is one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time and in a DPOY season when I have him. It would be tough for Wade to play his style of ball against Payton when he's putting the ball on the floor constantly and slashing/trying to draw fouls. I don't think Payton would bite on the classic Wade shot fakes and when Payton was in his prime defensively it was hard just to dribble around the guy.

Jordan vs Moncreif

I think the argument here for Demitri is about how Moncreif is a great defender but here is some quick numbers of a rookie Jordan with Moncreif guarding him in the 1985 playoffs.


Rk G Date Age Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS GmSc
1 1 1985-04-19 22-061 CHI MIL L (-9) 1 44:00 7 19 .368 0 1 .000 9 10 .900 1 3 4 10 3 0 1 3 23 21.5
2 2 1985-04-21 22-063 CHI MIL L (-7) 1 43:00 9 17 .529 1 4 .250 11 12 .917 1 3 4 12 2 0 7 5 30 24.3
3 3 1985-04-24 22-066 CHI MIL W (+2) 1 42:00 12 26 .462 0 1 .000 11 16 .688 3 5 8 7 4 1 3 4 35 28.2
4 4 1985-04-26 22-068 CHI MIL L (-8) 1 42:00 6 16 .375 0 2 .000 17 20 .850 2 5 7 5 2 3 4 3 29 24.3


Sorry if those are a little messy to read, here's the link

Anyways, you can tell by this game when MJ was only a rookie that Moncreif wasn't able to just take him out of the game and this was far before MJ's prime.
On the other end I think MJ would be able to slow down Moncreif decently well because Jordan is an elite defender and obviously Moncreif wasn't the offensive player MJ was. MJ will still be a pretty solid offensive weapon in this game

Pippen vs Rice

Advantage Pippen here (Obviously) but I'd probably throw TA or even Rodman at some point to slow him down. I just think I have too many good defenders and his team would have a hard time creating offense if Pippen and Wade were struggling to get in a rhythm offensively. Rice would just do what we need him to do and knock down the open 3 ball in transition as well as in the half court.

Webber vs Griffin

Two freak athlete PF's duking it out and I think it would be fun to watch. I think Webber has the advantage over Griffin in that he was a little more versatile on offense and he was a better passer than Griffin is. Blake still can't really create and does't have much of a back to the basket game. Webber could d him up enough and once Rodman came in I think Blake would be non existant in the half court.

Thurmond vs Marc Gasol

This would be a solid match up that would probably end up in both playing each other even. I think Thurmond is a better shot blocker but Gasol is damn strong in the post. Both have back to the basket game and both rebound. I think I was Kshutts post that I only had one shot blocker on my team but Thurmond and Rodman both racked them up over their careers (and DPOY Joakim Noah isn't bad either)


Benches:

I think this is my advantage. With 3 elite defenders in TA, Noah, and Rodman all coming off the bench I think it would be extremely tough for his team to handle the energy that all of those guys bring. Tim Hardaway is instant offense off the bench if we ever start to stall and Thunder Dan is a knock down shooter. Thurmond could easily bang with Zo and not be totally overpowered and I believe Noah could do a good job too (he handles Dwight pretty well today). Mike Miller getting minutes unleashes Jordan offensively or if TA is in he's getting locked down because he's not much of a creator and he's going to get face guarded. Kukoc brings good versatility but would be by far the worst big to get on the floor in this game. Parker is a nice bench player but he's either getting covered by the Glove or trying to guard Hardaway and I don't think he'd be able to keep in front of him.

Advantages my team has:

Flow on offense- solid passers
Rebounding- Rodman+Thurmond+ CWebb+ Noah (and even TA)
3 pt Shooting- Neither of us are great but I think just Rice and Hardaway give us the advantage
Clutch performers- MJ
Defense- 4 DPOY and a bunch of 1st Team all D guys

I'll defend more tomorrow, I gotta get some sleep

[wally_world]

Leaning Buffalo esp if Demi isn't even gonna come on and defend his team.

HITA and Gotter is an epic matchup. I like the toughness and craftiness of Duncan against Shaq, but TMac is gonna be hard to contain. I would need to hear more game plans from both sides because this is too close to call on paper.

[kshutts1]

Rodman's best block season was 70 blocks.. for the year.
Noah averages about 1.5 per game for his career. Not bad, but not scary.

Anyway, I'm giving it to Buffalo unless Demitri defends his team, and does it well.

[kshutts1]

The only real concern I have for Gotter's team, and anyone that may face Shaq/Wilt, is foul trouble.

If whomever is guarding Shaq goes in to foul trouble, the matchups are no longer in Gotter's favor. At the start of the game? Sure. Duncan or Reed would abuse Ibaka.
But the instant one of those guys is in foul trouble, the other has to guard Shaq. And Shaq can guard them. And that means Ibaka will be guarding McAdoo, which I think he can do pretty well. At least Ibaka can guard Mc better than Duncan/Reed can guard Shaq.

That said, I can't give a series to foul trouble. I see Shaq's dominance winning a couple games, maybe even TMac wins a game. But Gotter takes it in 7.

[Jlamb47]

Team #1 wins
Team # 8 wins

[wally_world]

Team #1 wins
Team # 8 wins

If you can post the rationale behind your choice you can make your vote count :) Same with the other matchups. Would be happy to hear your inputs and for more "outsiders" to participate in discussions.

[Buffalobraves]

Rodman's best block season was 70 blocks.. for the year.
Noah averages about 1.5 per game for his career. Not bad, but not scary.

Anyway, I'm giving it to Buffalo unless Demitri defends his team, and does it well.

Rodman was a force from the weak side though. I'm not saying I have elite shot blocking I'm just saying it's not like I don't have any.

[Demitri98]

The breakdown of my matchup: (for the sake of matchup I'll list Moncrief at PG even though Wade will bring it up most of the time.)

PG: Moncrief vs Payton
Clearly Payton is the better player, but people forget that Moncrief was also a damn good offensive player in his prime. He was a lockdown perimeter defender (2 time DPOY) and a decent slasher. He could play both guard positions and wouldn't throw a hissyfit in the locker room. Would work hard on both ends and do the dirty work, which is exactly what I need. He can definitely check Payton on the defensive end and can switch to MJ for stretches when Wade and Pippen are both sitting. He's pretty much my backcourt role player.

SG: MJ vs Wade
Again, obviously MJ is the better player. But people forget just how dominant prime Flash was. Guy was literally an unstoppable one man wrecking crew in the court. Phenomenal quickness (I'll make the argument he had a quicker first step and was more explosive than MJ) and commands CONSTANT attention from the entire defense. He and Pippen take the bulk of the creating duties and both can score at elite levels. Prime D-Wade I think can really hassle MJ on the defensive end, and can really give him a run for his money. Both are very good midrange shooters but are most effective at the rim. Both are mediocre to average 3 point shooters, so that really cancels out.

SF: Pippen vs Rice
Pippen has the clear advantage and is obviously the better player on both ends. He is arguably the GOAT 2-way wing player. Glen Rice was a nice shooter and a good scorer, but never really carried responsibilities for the entire team like Pippen did in '94 and '95. Pippen's Bulls were literally one botched call from an ECF run and even possibly the Finals. Rice is really a role player on this team. Pippen will have no trouble guarding him, as well as attacking him and creating plays for himself and others.

PF: Griffin vs Webber
This is a hell of a matchup. Both are top-tier athletes and excellent scorers. As I mentioned in the draft thread, I'm taking the most recent preseason version of Blake, with the silky smooth jumper he was showing off. Blake finished 3rd in the MVP voting last year, and is only getting better. With this great defensive team around him he won't have to worry too much and can focus on crashing the glass and running the floor a la Karl Malone. When Wade and Pippen are shut down/get cold, Blake can always call for it in the post or on the elbow and go to work. He is a great passer and is one of the few bigs who can effectively run a fast break ending with either a layup, dunk, assist or free throws. Webber is of a similar mold, and was a beast in the post. I have great interior defenders in Gasol and Zo, so checking C-Web in the post shouldn't be an issue. But with MJ on the wing, our defense should be focusing in that more.

C: Gasol vs Thurmond
Both are excellent 2-way bigs and can create in the post. as well as anyone. I don't have very much extensive knowledge on Thurmond, but I know he was great in the post and a very good defender. Gasol will be sacrificing minutes to Zo, as each will be playing huge roles on the inside. I can even run both if I'm feeling like the Twin Towers, as Zo is a capable 4. Gasol is a very good passer and Zo will be pinning all kinds of shots against the glass. This really boils down to who plays better team ball.

Bench:
G: Hardaway and Allen vs Parker and Mike Miller
Hardaway and Parker are both excellent sparklugs off the pine. Miller is my lights out shooter. Hardaway and Parker are both aggressive attackers but I think Parker is better in a system. Hardaway can be used on his team for instant offense, but I don't know that I can put the ball in his hands down 1 with 10 seconds left. Tony Allen, on the other hand, will be used strictly as a defensive specialist. He will play lockdown D for his team when both MJ and Glove are sitting, which is not often. He can create for himself occasionally too. Miller is a strict 3pt specialist for spacing out the D.

F: Barry and Kukoc vs Thunder Dan and Rodman
Barry and Pippen will need to share heavy minutes, but I think the chemistry guys like Miller, Zo and Gasol will keep their egos from getting in the way. Barry and Rodman both negate each other, as Barry is lights out on offense and Rodman is lights out on defense. Barry was also very pesky in the passing lanes, as evidenced by his several seasons of 2+ SPG after they started recording steals. Admittedly I don't know a lot about Dan Majerle, but what I do know is that he will be very good in the role he's placed in.

C: Alonzo vs Noah
This is a wash. Both are phenomenal defenders and vocal team leaders with a ton of heart. Zo will probably have more minutes on the floor in Gasol's place than Noah will in Thurmonds, so I think at the end of the day Zo gets the edge here.

[Gotterdammerung]

BuffaloBraves vs Demitri
A lot of interesting matchups up and down the roster. The most exciting one is Wade vs Michael Jordan. And it's not as one-sided as the 1992 Finals turned out to be.

Wade had superior lateral quickness, but Jordan's was unreal. The only guard as strong as Wade was probably Oscar Robertson, but Jordan is probably tougher driving to the hoop. Wade makes way too many mistakes with ballhandling, unlike Jordan. Most of Wade's assists come from dump-offs in the lane, as opposed to running the offense. Jordan is probably better here, with the higher BB IQ. Both are incredible finishers, and unreliable shooters from beyond 20 feet.

Moncrief is probably the superior guard vs Payton, likely because he was not as ball-dominant and yet just as good on defense. Neither were great shooters from spot up situations, and Moncrief's handle isn't as good. But unlike Payton, Moncrief was a crunch time player who peaked at the best time. Payton scored on post-ups but he isn't posting up Wade or Moncrief. He'll ambush the lanes, especially if Wade makes one of those patented jump passes. However, he was an inconsistent long range shooter.

Pippen, a dynamic scorer in the half court and a brilliant finisher on the run, could play big or small. There was no aspect of the game he wasn't a master of, and given his suffocating defense at point or shooting guard or the 3 spot, he could be a third guy to minimize Jordan if Wade was exhausted or saddled in foul trouble. For BuffaloBraves, Pippen is his surrogate coach on the floor. Glen Rice is a nice scorer and shooter from outside, but he won't see the ball much to be effective.

Griffin and Webber will neutralize one another. Fortunately for BB, Dennis Rodman can come in and make life miserable for Griffin. Incredibly intelligent, Rodman will master the offense in the first day. Thurmond will compliment Payton and MJ and Rodman perfectly on defense, cuz he was an absolute monster. Will score on offensive rebounds and jump hooks. Gasol will be tough but not enough to overcome Nate the Great, who will make Marc sweat for every shot and dish out a bruise for each bucket.

All in all, Demitri's edge at the perimeter is offset by BuffaloBraves' superior defensive intensity. I'll pick BuffaloBraves in 7, since Jordan plus defense is usually enough. Perhaps Coach Carlisle can weave a brilliant offensive gameplan that brings out the best from Team Demitri for an upset?

[barkleynash]

I have the #1 seed advancing. I don't have the Jordan vs Wade matchup nearly as close as some of you others do. Wade would have to out play MJ for his team to pull off the upset and I don't seeing that happening 4 out of 7 games. Maybe 1 or 2 times but not 4. The rest of both teams kind of nullify each other with pretty even matchups (Scottie is almost wasted guarding Rice as he'll have to shadow him on the 3 point line and won't be able to roam and cause havoc). It's a shame that Demitri's best offensive player in Wade had to go against a guy that would likely lock him up for the majority of the series. If his big advantage was at PF or C then the series would be a lot more interesting for me...

need to look at the other matchup some more before deciding

[barkleynash]

in the 8vs9 I'm giving it to Team Hangin (despite having a little less overall talent) as I think his pieces fit together a little better (especially when Love and Shaq are together!). What a fun series though, especially with the potential epic scoring duel between Tmac and King!

Edited: mistakenly had Gotter playing team Random lol

[barkleynash]

last day of voting peeps before we go to the next round

[Gotterdammerung]

in the 8vs9 I'm giving it to Team Random (despite having a little less overall talent) as I think his pieces fit together a little better (especially when Love and Shaq are together!). What a fun series though, especially with the potential epic scoring duel between Tmac and King!

I didn't know I'm also playing Random Guy

But consider this: my frontcourt of Duncan and Willis Reed and Bob McAdoo is superior to HangintheAir's O'Neal and Ibaka and Love.

For one thing, they are all MVPs, and champions. Proven guys who are both team guys and individually talented, as well as clutch performers.

O'Neal is likely the best by himself, but Duncan isn't far behind, and a more consistent winner.

[kshutts1]

Buffalo and Gotter. I said it earlier, just want to make it easier on whomever counts them.