Duncan's peak was higher than Hakeem/Shaq/Malone

[Cold soul]

No/No/Yes

[La Frescobaldi]

I don't even know why Karl Malone was mentioned. No one would have put him over Duncan, Hakeem, and most certainly above Shaq.

I would probably go with a tie with Hakeem, but in no way would I take Duncan over Shaq from '00 thru '02. And Malone...why bother?

so.... Yes/No/yes.... right? Tie goes to the runner, as per usual.

That's pretty much my view also. Olajuwan had a little window of beating not much for teams. Great players in front of him personally but... those teams were... lesser levels.
But let's think about Kobe Bryant vs. what Duncan had during those OP years. Stephen Jackson, ancient Steve Kerr, rookies Manu & TP.

When did Duncan ever have a player on his team like Kobe8? Certainly not any Admiral that he ever saw on a court.

One could even argue the Derek Fisher of those days was at least approaching Duncan's guards. Fisher was almighty great clutch and played some staunch defense before he turned into a full-bore floppist

Stilll..... that Shaq peak though....

[K Xerxes]

I don't wish to demean Duncan's ability, but having watched both of them, I view Hakeem as just a slightly better version of Duncan in basically all facets of the game. Just slightly more dominant defender and scorer, which is why there's no question in my mind that Hakeem was a more impactful player in a vacuum. Of course it becomes more difficult when you compare accomplishments as Duncan has had a better situation throughout his whole career, and it's debatable how much of that was down to his leadership and intangibles, which obviously count...

No question with Shaq. Peak Shaq was too dominant offensively and outweighs any defensive advantage Duncan had.

Duncan has a great career, amassed awesome accomplishments and is therefore probably a 'greater' player. But peak for peak... come on, I don't even see it as much of a debate. He was good, but not Hakeem good, and certainly not Shaq good.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't wish to demean Duncan's ability, but having watched both of them, I view Hakeem as just a slightly better version of Duncan in basically all facets of the game. Just slightly more dominant defender and scorer, which is why there's no question in my mind that Hakeem was a more impactful player in a vacuum. Of course it becomes more difficult when you compare accomplishments as Duncan has had a better situation throughout his whole career, and it's debatable how much of that was down to his leadership and intangibles, which obviously count...

No question with Shaq. Peak Shaq was too dominant offensively and outweighs any defensive advantage Duncan had.

Duncan has a great career, amassed awesome accomplishments and is therefore probably a 'greater' player. But peak for peak... come on, I don't even see it as much of a debate. He was good, but not Hakeem good, and certainly not Shaq good.

I agree with much of this.

But Duncan, like Russell and Magic, are the three greatest "winners" in NBA history. They always seemed to get the most of their teammates, and in fact, I have maintained that with them, the whole was almost always greater than the sum.

In any case, Hakeem was an all-time great, and has a case as a Top-10 player. Not bad, and certainly greater than Karl.

[dhsilv]

For sure . But why you mentioned Karl ? He wasn't on those guys level .

Weird, I just assumed he was talking Moses.

[La Frescobaldi]

I agree with much of this.

But Duncan, like Russell and Magic, are the three greatest "winners" in NBA history. They always seemed to get the most of their teammates, and in fact, I have maintained that with them, the whole was almost always greater than the sum.

In any case, Hakeem was an all-time great, and has a case as a Top-10 player. Not bad, and certainly greater than Karl.

It's too bad op didn't use the real Malone in his title.
In that case I'd line them up like this:
Moses
Shaq
Duncan
Olajuwon
Edit jacked up cut and paste lol

Too much lousy attitude from Hakeem for years. He was chumply a lot.

[dhsilv]

'93 is Hakeem's peak. It's better than any of Duncan's seasons.

Duncan's 02 season by most measure was noticeably better. Other than a .3 edge in PER any other metric favors duncan.

[dhsilv]

OP is exactly why Duncan gets overrated. Guy was never on peak Shaq or Hakeem's level seeing as those two were a grade above on offense.

Shaq having finals where he practically averaged 40 a game, Hakeem with the efficient skillset vs elite competition - it couldn't be more obvious to anyone that watched these players careers unfold. A debate can be had versus Malone though. With the playoff disasters he accumulated, you could argue Duncan was more consistent while averaging the SAME number of points a game on better efficiency.

For the millionth time, Hakeem is NOT a better offensive player than Duncan. Stop watching youtube videos!

[LAZERUSS]

It's too bad op didn't use the real Malone in his title.
In that case I'd line them up like this:
Shaq
Moses
Duncan
Olajuwon

As would I.



And a prime Moses dominated ALL of his peers, too. There was simply no one that gave him a battle. He was head-and-shoulders above his peers.

[dubeta]

Funny how LeBron has a higher peak than all 4 of them

Yet ppl here dont even want to acknowledge he's top 5 all-time

[K Xerxes]

It's too bad op didn't use the real Malone in his title.
In that case I'd line them up like this:
Moses
Shaq
Duncan
Olajuwon
Edit jacked up cut and paste lol

Too much lousy attitude from Hakeem for years. He was chumply a lot.

I don't know what chumply means... but I agree he didn't have the greatest attitude in his earlier years. He matured by the time he hit his late 20s and 30s, which is what's relevant for a discussion on peaks.

As would I.



And a prime Moses dominated ALL of his peers, too. There was simply no one that gave him a battle. He was head-and-shoulders above his peers.

I can't really comment on Moses as I know less about his peak years than I probably should. I know he was dominant offensively and particularly on the boards, but what about his defense?

[DMAVS41]

For the millionth time, Hakeem is NOT a better offensive player than Duncan. Stop watching youtube videos!

And stop looking at flawed and team dependent stats to overrate Duncan offensively and underrate Hakeem offensively.

Yes, Hakeem was a better offensive player than Duncan...

Duncan was not special offensively...Hakeem was.

[dhsilv]

Duncan is actually at 30.9 while Hakeem is at 38.2 per 100 possessions. That's a HUGE difference of 7+ ppg. I know Duncan belongs on the short list of GOAT level peaks for playoff runs but my only point is the Hakeem had the type of dominant offensive game Duncan never had. And that is simply indisputable.

Hakeem was a better scorer, but he was simply not a better offensive player. The spurs offense flowed through Duncan during the 03 run, that was an entire offense built around him. Duncan is on another planet as far as passing ability and ball movement are concerned from hakeem. There is a reason Hakeem's OBPM numbers are not strong. He just wasn't nearly the offensive player you're claiming he was.

[dhsilv]

And stop looking at flawed and team dependent stats to overrate Duncan offensively and underrate Hakeem offensively.

Yes, Hakeem was a better offensive player than Duncan...

Duncan was not special offensively...Hakeem was.

Both were special by nba history standards. Neither are all time great offensive players. Hakeem was a defensive beast, but he was just NOT a great offensive player by top 50 all time standards.

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem was a better scorer, but he was simply not a better offensive player. The spurs offense flowed through Duncan during the 03 run, that was an entire offense built around him. Duncan is on another planet as far as passing ability and ball movement are concerned from hakeem. There is a reason Hakeem's OBPM numbers are not strong. He just wasn't nearly the offensive player you're claiming he was.

Because, as we all know, the entire Rockets offense wasn't built around Hakeem, it was built around Kenny Smith.