kobe>bird

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Defensive stats do not tell the story of defense -- but in Kobe's case, 1.5 spg represents his level of defense. He is good. He can make a play, but he's not a beast or a demon. He's not Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen. For an offensive player, he's good.

Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.

[bizil]

I see some posters on here are dissing Kobe's defense. I'm not saying he's Pip, MJ, Moncrief, Bowen, or Cooper. But Kobe was CLEARLY one of the elite perimeter defenders in the NBA. Bird was a great help defender and even made some All D teams. But he's not on Kobe's level in terms of defense. And YES it's enough to give him the edge on Bird. If a player has the ability to get 35 a night on you AND shut you down or make u work harder for offense then of course it makes a difference. It's one of the key factors that gave MJ the edge over Magic and Bird back in the day.

[Joey Zaza]

If anything you slob on Bird's knob! I'm just keeping it real and Kobe is the closest thing to MJ. MJ is better than Bird. And Kobe is close enough to MJ. So Kobe is better than Bird too. But Bird isn't far off in my book either. But MJ and Kobe can do ANYTHING Bird can do pound for pound except prolific three point shooting. And when they get hot, they can kill u from three point range.

Bizil's whole post summed up here. Follow MJ > Bird. Kobe is close to MJ (except for being worse than him in every conceivable facet of the game) so therefore, even though their prodcution and every objective measure tells a different story, Kobe > Bird.

That, right there, is the source of all Kobe logic. Kobe is like MJ, MJ is great so Kobe is great. What's lost in translation is that while Kobe does so much like MJ, he does nothing NOTHING as well as MJ. Not even close. He's a poor fascimilie.

Kobe:
25.3 5.3 4.7 .450 w/ 1.5 spg

MJ
30.1 6.2 5.3 .497 w/ 2.3spg

Kobe had 3 great scoring seasons - MJ's AVERAGE is equal to one of them. MJ had 12 seasons scoring better than Kobe's average...and we haven't even had his decline, yet.

[brownmamba00]

Bird was a weak man-to-man defender. Stop acting like he was legendary on D or some shit.

His passing,rebounding ability and tough leadership is what made him special.

[andgar923]

5 rings>4 rings nuff said

[Joey Zaza]

Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.

Well, Kobe > Bird based on defense, I am giving examples of perimeter guys whose defense made a difference and by comparison, Kobe's didn't.

Statistically, Monta is alot like Kobe w/ more stls. Thank you for the comparison

[bizil]

Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.

Great point! Steals can be misleading. A guy like Bowen plays EPIC position D. Steals involve gambling and many great steals guys were ALSO great defenders. Like MJ and Alvin Robertson. Or even Hakeem for big guys. But u have many great defenders who are known for keeping their man in front of them. And taking away certain go to moves. That is more valuable than a guy who JUST simply gambles for steals.

[Joey Zaza]

And YES it's enough to give him the edge on Bird. If a player has the ability to get 35 a night on you AND shut you down or make u work harder for offense then of course it makes a difference.

Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?

[catch24]

Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Kobe shuts down Iverson

Educate yourself.

[TheLogo]

Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?

The term "shutdown" refers to a stretch of the game or perhaps near the end of a game when a player needs to be stopped.

In today's league no one player can shutdown the other. Impossible considering how good these guys are and the intricate zone schemes.

[Joey Zaza]

The term "shutdown" refers to a stretch of the game or perhaps near the end of a game when a player needs to be stopped.

In today's league no one player can shutdown the other. Impossible considering how good these guys are and the intricate zone schemes.

Talk to Bizil - Kobe shut down so many people playing so many positions that he made up for his extreme offensive deficiencies as compared to Bird.

[Joey Zaza]

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Kobe shuts down Iverson

Educate yourself.

His defensive mastery over AI was so great they put Ty. Lue on him.

Ty. Lue > Bird.

[TheLogo]

Talk to Bizil - Kobe shut down so many people playing so many positions that he made up for his extreme offensive deficiencies as compared to Bird.

extreme offensive deficiencies?

Kobe has the most offensive weapons in his arsenal than anyone I can remember.

[catch24]

His defensive mastery over AI was so great they put Ty. Lue on him.

Ty. Lue > Bird.

You claimed you've never seen Kobe shut down guys like Iverson, right? Well, the footage I just posted doesn't lie. Iverson was rendered to 7 of 25 shooting which includes his GW shot attempt being blocked by, you guessed it, Kobe Bryant.

Shut-down.

[Joey Zaza]

extreme offensive deficiencies?

Kobe has the most offensive weapons in his arsenal than anyone I can remember.

Except Bird did it better.