Russell or Mikan: Who's the most dominant player before the Kareem era?

[Deuce Bigalow]

1 title before Magic's era. "Kareem era" doesn't exist. Change it to "Cowens era" or "Dr.J era".

Kareem was still elite in '80 and '82 though. I would agree it was more like the Magic and Bird era instead of the Kareem era.

[SpanishACB]

u posted a pic of will smith

and it's the only one you noticed to be fake

[Deuce Bigalow]

How come Mikan doesn't get anywhere near the recognition that Russell and Wilt do nowadays? He dominated the league in similar fashion, yet I hardly see people mention him on their lists. Never understood this.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense since most people have Russell and Wilt in the top 5. Russell played his first NBA game in 1956, Mikan played his last a couple months before in the same year, and won a title two years prior.

[NumberSix]

Wilt

/thread

[LAZERUSS]

In their ten years in the league together, Wilt and Russell each won four MVP awards. However, Chamberlain was clearly robbed in '62, and had a solid case in '64 over Oscar (especially when you compare rosters.)

BUT, Wilt held a 7-2 margin in First-Team All-NBA selections over Russell in that span. AND, by the mid-to-late 60's, Chamberlain was blowing Russell away in the voting.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Chamberlain outplayed Russell in every facet of the game over the course of their 143 career H2H's. And before someone brings up FTs, Wilt heavily OUTSCORED Russell from the line. In the known data that we do have, Chamberlain held an edge in EVERY department. Furthermore there were games in which Wilt just carpet-bombed Russell.

Of course the Russell-supporters will bring up team success, but, had those two swapped rosters, and, as John Wooden said, ... it would have been Wilt winning all those rings.

[Deuce Bigalow]

In their ten years in the league together, Wilt and Russell each won four MVP awards. However, Chamberlain was clearly robbed in '62, and had a solid case in '64 over Oscar (especially when you compare rosters.)

BUT, Wilt held a 7-2 margin in First-Team All-NBA selections over Russell in that span. AND, by the mid-to-late 60's, Chamberlain was blowing Russell away in the voting.

In the 10 years they played in the league together, Russell won 9 titles, Wilt won 1. Russell was also voted the GOAT player a couple years after he retired.

[LAZERUSS]

In the 10 years they played in the league together, Russell won 9 titles, Wilt won 1. Russell was also voted the GOAT player a couple years after he retired.

Russell's TEAMs held a 9-1 margin over Wilt's TEAMs. And, BTW, Russell was voted GOAT player ONLY because ACTIVE players were not included in the voting in 1971 (and of course, Chamberlain was still playing in 1971.)

Furthermore, Russell was voted GOAT player in 1980 by the basketball writers of association of America...which was interesting...since they evidently weren't the same writers who voted Chamberlain ahead of Russell in First-Team All-NBA voting by a 7-2 margin in their ten years in the league together...AT THE TIME they were playing.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell's TEAMs held a 9-1 margin over Wilt's TEAMs. And, BTW, Russell was voted GOAT player ONLY because ACTIVE players were not included in the voting in 1971.

9 to 1 advantage. Not even close

[LAZERUSS]

9 to 1 advantage. Not even close

Actually, it was VERY close. Russell's TEAMs edged Wilt's TEAMs in FOUR of their playoff series by margins of 2, 1, 2, and 4 points. And thank god for Russell that his TEAMMATES were thoroughly outplaying Chamberlain's in their playoff H2H's, since Wilt was dominating Russell in those series.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Actually, it was VERY close. Russell's TEAMs edged Wilt's TEAMs in FOUR of their playoff series by margins of 2, 1, 2, and 4 points. And thank god for Russell that his TEAMMATES were thoroughly outplaying Chamberlain's in their playoff H2H's, since Wilt was dominating Russell in those series.

Actually, Russell and his teammates were thanking God for Wilt missing 9+ freethrows in those 2, 1, 2, and 4 point wins.

[LAZERUSS]

Actually, Russell and his teammates were thanking God for Wilt missing 9+ freethrows in those 2, 1, 2, and 4 point wins.

You mean the Wilt that went 8-9 from line in the game seven, two point loss in '62? On a team that collectively shot .354 in that postseason?

Or the Chamberlain that shot 6-13 from the line in the game seven, one point loss in the '65 EDF's with a 40-40 team (Russell's Celtics went 62-18)...albeit shooting 12-15 from the field, and badly outscoring, outshooting, and outrebounding Russell in that game. And, BTW, for that series, Chamberlain AVERAGED 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, shot .555 from the field, and .583 from the line....to Russell's 15.6 ppg, 25.2 rpg, .447 FG%, AND, Russell's .472 from the line.

Or the Chamberlain who outscored, outrebounded, outshot Russell in the '68 EDF's, DESPITE playing injured himself, and without HOF teammate Billy Cunningham the entire series, and with his two other starters, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones playing hurt, and basically worthless...in a game seven, four point loss.

Or the Wilt, in game seven of the '69 Finals, who outscored Russell by a 18-6 margin; outrebounded Russell by a 27-21 margin; outshot Russell from the field by a 7-8 to 2-7 margin; and OUTSCORED Russell from the line by a 4-2 margin? Oh, and while Wilt was shooting .875 from the field in that same game, his teammates collectively shot .360 from the floor

Yep. Russell did indeed thank Chamberlain for missing those FTs...since Wilt was just downright destroying him in EVERY phase of the game.

[Pointguard]

In the 10 years they played in the league together, Russell won 9 titles, Wilt won 1. Russell was also voted the GOAT player a couple years after he retired.

You misused the word you were looking for. Wilt dominated Russell as had all other players in his prime. Russell's team won more. Two very different things. Good attempt to find a clever way to leave Wilt out of a faulty statement tho.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You mean the Wilt that went 8-9 from line in the game seven, two point loss in '62?

Or the Chamberlain that shot 6-13 from the line in the game seven, one point loss in the '65 EDF's with a 40-40 team (Russell's Celtics went 62-18)...albeit shooting 12-15 from the field, and badly outscoring, outshooting, and outrebounding Russell in that game. And, BTW, for that series, Chamberlain AVERAGED 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, shot .555 from the field, and .583 from the line....to Russell's 15.6 ppg, 25.2 rpg, .447 FG%, AND, Russell's .472 from the line.

Or the Chamberlain who outscored, outrebounded, outshot Russell in the '68 EDF's, DESPITE playing injured himself, and without HOF teammate Billy Cunningham the entire series, and with his two other starters, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones playing hurt, and basically worthless...in a game seven, four point loss.

Or the Wilt, in game seven of the '69 Finals, who outscored Russell by a 18-6 margin; outrebounded Russell by a 27-21 margin; outshot Russell from the field by a 7-8 to 2-7 margin; and OUTSCORED Russell from the line by a 4-2 margin?

Yep. Russell did indeed thank Chamberlain for missing those FTs...since Wilt was just downright destroying him in EVERY phase of the game.

FT-FTA / Loss margin

'65 EDF
Gm 7: 6-13 / -1

'68 EDF
Gm 6: 8-22 / -8
Gm 7: 6-15 / -4

'69 Finals
Gm 3: 4-11 / -6
Gm 4: 2-11 / -1
Gm 7: 4-13 / -9

"Nobody gave away more championship games than Wilt" -Former Wilt teammate

[LAZERUSS]

FT-FTA / Loss margin

'65 EDF
Gm 7: 6-13 / -1

'68 EDF
Gm 6: 8-22 / -8
Gm 7: 6-15 / -4

'69 Finals
Gm 3: 4-11 / -6
Gm 4: 2-11 / -1
Gm 7: 4-13 / -9

How about FG% and teammates FG%'s?

Wilt's TRUE TS% in game seven of the '65 EDF's... .698 (Russell's was .441 BTW.)

Wilt's TRUE TS% in game seven of the '69 Finals... .621 (Russell's was .333 BTW.)

And Chamberlain played every minute of the '68 EDF's with almost the same injury that crippled Reed in the last three games of the '70 Finals...and Chamberlain STILL averaged 22 ppg and 25 rpg in that series.

"Had Wilt been surrounded by the playing cast that Russell had with the Boston Celtics, and had he had Red Auerbach as a coach, his TEAMs might well have won all those championships." John Wooden.