Revisiting Kobe Bryant`s first three-peat

[EarlTheGoat]

Controversial thread, I know. I will try and be as objective as possible when expressing my opinion. This thread might get a lot of trolling, please dont feed it and lets have a solid constructive debate.


So, basicly, revisiting Kobe Bryant`s performances from 1999 to 2002. Its a myth, Kobe Bryant was merely a second option to Shaq on a daily basis in this three playoff runs. Probably made by Kobe haters or simply random people who get pissed about Kobe homers (who I admit can get really annoying).

The argument for many illogical people to hype up Kobe Bryant in comparison with all-time greats is talk about his five rings. "Five rings" here, "five rings" there. So haters or just annoyed people are going to come up with: "he was merely Shaq`s f*ck in his first 3 rings", "he was no more than a second option". And while being partially true, it is not 100 % accurate in my opinion. People tend to diminish Kobe Bryant`s performances in his first three-peat.

The thing is, im a Lakers fan, have been since I was a little child, and of course I saw the first three-peat complete, was a joy to watch and one of the most powerful teams in the history of the league in my opinion. The combination of Kobe and Shaq was unstoppable, and its a shame it didnt last longer. The point is, he probably was a clear second option in the first run (1999-2000) but absolutely not in many series of 00-01 and 01-02, he was the first option or at least the 1b option throughout many stretches of those runs. Kobe was not constantly hitting wide open jump-shots. In the 00-01 he put up 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg and 6.1 apg on 46/32/82 %, just throwing some stats for reference. There might not be one single "second option" in the history of the league to have such impact on the game. Seriously, almost 30 points per game is made by a second option player? Absolutely no way. Shaq struggled in many stretches of some series, against the wide knownly Spurs for example. They were double, triple teaming him and making him suffer to get his game, the Spurs played a great defense. And of course Shaq was never completely stopped, but what he did in some of those series was never enough to win the ring if not for the presence of a solid 1b option in Kobe Bryant.

Kobe had something against the Spurs, I dont know what, but he seemed to get the best of him against them. Absolutely unstoppable when getting his shot, when playing fluidly and demanding him to take over the game. Imagine a prime Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili taking the Kobe role during that threepeat. This 2 players have been no more than a very solid option on a contending team, some people say: "switch Kobe with any other all-star guard in the league and they still win 3 rings", and this is obviously false. I really dont see Allen or Ginobili having the impact Kobe had on the Lakers. And this is the difference between a second option and a 1b option. Allen for the Celtics, Ginobili for the Spurs, Gasol for the Lakers...are clear second options and they never got close to Kobe`s level as a "second option" during the three-peat.


So, despite my poor english ive tried to make my arguments as better as possible. As a resume id say that during the first ring 99-00 Kobe was the clear second option, but he surely wasnt in 00-01 and 01-02, at least not on a daily basis. He was dominating and having a similar impact than Shaq during large stretches of games. Kobe benefited from Shaq but Shaq benefited from Kobe. Im not taking credit from O`Neal, I still think he was the key player in all of this runs, im just trying to break this myth that diminishes Kobe`s impact in the first three-peat, making him a clear 1b option many times.

[TheLogo]

Search my Kobe's Greatest Game threads....you can see he was a beast and dominating.

I believe Shaq wouldn't be as dominant as he was without Kobe. Shaq never put up those beast numbers with others like he did with Kobe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

at Shaq not putting up the same numbers without Kobe.

His first 4 seasons in the league with Orlando.
27.2 ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.8 bpg, 58.1 FG%

Shaq's numbers without Kobe during the 3peat(excluding the game he left early due to the fight with Barkley)
31.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.9 bpg, 59.5 FG% (30 games)

And Kobe's 2001 and 2002 rings are sometimes undervalued, he was the second option, but probably the best second option of all time those years and probably the second best player in the playoffs each year so those rings can't be written off as merely "sidekick rings".

[Funky Pool]

That's right a lot of people forget how good Kobe was during the threepeat with Shaq.

The best exemple is the 2001 playoffs, when he scored 93 points in 2 games !

48 points 16 rebounds ! against Sacramento in Game 4 of the west semis
45 points 10 rebounds against San Antonio in Game 1 of the west finals

and he was 22 years old ! I mean i hated him when he was young because he was arrogant and selfish but i had to admit he was a beast.

[TheLogo]

That's right a lot of people forget how good Kobe was during the threepeat with Shaq.

The best exemple is the 2001 playoffs, when he scored 93 points in 2 games !

48 points 16 rebounds ! against Sacramento in Game 4 of the west semis
45 points 10 rebounds against San Antonio in Game 1 of the west finals

and he was 22 years old ! I mean i hated him when he was young because he was arrogant and selfish but i had to admit he was a beast.

yep.

Kobe led the Lakers past Sac and then had a big series against the Spurs.

[AirJordan&Magic]

yep.

Kobe led the Lakers past Sac and then had a big series against the Spurs.

Shaq was every bit as dominant, if not more, in that Sacremento series as Kobe was. They were pretty much even if you ask me in that series.

Kobe Bryant was the best player in the San Antonio series, however.

[plowking]

Well there certainly isn't a second three peat we could talk about.

[beermonsteroo]

[, he was the second option, but probably the best second option of all time

Get outta here!

[PurpleChuck]

Well there certainly isn't a second three peat we could talk about.

You just provoked TheLogo and Bladers.

[Desperado]

Agreed.

There's a double standard for counting rings. People say Kobe's first three rings are invalid because they were won with Shaq, then why aren't Magic's 5 rings invalid because he won with Kareem?

Also this whole "the Lakers could have still won championships with some other all-star guard or wing player in Kobe's place" argument is whatever.

They will say ''oh replace Kobe with Vince Carter/AI/T-Mac etc. and they still win 3 rings''.

That hypothetical non-sense might have gotten you some ground back in like '03 but we are in 2010!

I ain't hearing crap like this no more from you idiots cause its without a shred of even comprehensible evidence.

Kobe has proven WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that he is/was/will always be SUPERIOR to any of those guys. How on earth can you even make that argument with a straight face knowing what you know today?

And let's not even mention the defensive end, where Kobe was an All-NBA defender during that run. You telling me T-Mac and Vince played defense as well Kobe?

Your telling me Vince Carter would have went head up with Bruce Bowen and the Spurs defense like Kobe did?

Was Tracy McGrady was about to guard Iverson in the Finals, and Bibby, and Jason Kidd etc.?

I could just as easily speculate that if you replace Shaq with Tim Duncan not only do the Lakers still win championships, they probably win more than 3 without having to go through a rebuilding stage like they did from '05-'07.

Duncan was consistently on another tier as far as defensive impact goes, was consistently more healthy, less injury prone and more dedicated and professional as far as "rehabbing on company time" and conditioning goes.

His offensive game would mesh with Kobe's perfectly. Think Kobe/Gasol on steroids but with dominant instant-championship defensive presence on Tim's behalf and this part is pure speculation on my behalf, it would seem he has the type of personality that would prevent a lot of the clashes Shaq and Kobe had. The Duncan/Kobe duo wouldn't had even ever broken up and Tim's been playing at pretty much the same high level consistently and the Lakers wouldn't have had to waste 3 years of Kobe's prime trying to rebuild. If we're going the "alternate NBA history" route, I could see the Kobe/Duncan Lakers sitting at 6 or 7 rings right now.....

I also like a Kobe/Garnett duo's shot at multiple championships as well....

[G-Funk]

Magic never heard "he never won it without Kareem.'' Bird never heard "he never won it without Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.''

In each of Magic's five championship seasons, he had a top-5 player of all time (Kareem). Granted, Kareem, although still a big-time scorer, was 38, 40 and 41 years old for the final three titles. But by then, Magic had been joined by another top-50 teammate in James Worthy, who played on the Lakers' 1985, 1987 and 1988 title teams. That's not to mention other great Magic teammates such as Byron Scott, Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon and Hall of Famer Bob McAdoo.

Wilt Chamberlain and West won only one ring apiece, despite playing together for four full seasons. Elgin Baylor never won a championship despite playing most of his career with West. Shaq, of course, won 4 rings with 2 of the 3 best players in the league. Wade was not able to win without Shaq and LeBron couldn't do it without Wade.

[rzp]

LoL at Kobe fanboys trying to remake the history to boost their hero career...

LoL at Kobe fanboys always calling Spurs series, just because Kobe has better numbers, completly ignoring the fact that Spurs defense was build and focused to stop Shaq, leaving Kobe to chuck all day long. Without Shaq the Spurs would shut down and embarass Kobe just like they did with Lebron.

Kobe was the second banana, sore.

[G-Funk]

Wade's 06 Championship Season(1st option)
[COLOR="Red"]27/6/5 [/COLOR]

Wade's Last Season(top 3 player in league)
[COLOR="red"]26/6/5[/COLOR]

Kobe 2001
[COLOR="purple"]28/5/6[/COLOR]

Kobe 2002
[COLOR="Purple"]25/5/5[/COLOR]

Kobe in 2003
[COLOR="purple"]30/6/6[/COLOR]

Kobe in 2010 (Championship Season[1st option])
[COLOR="purple"]27/5/5[/COLOR]

[AK47DR91]

First three-peat wouldn't happen without Shaq's legendary dominance, so who cares what Kobe did since he played second fiddle.

Be happy with the current 2-peat and possible 3-peat this upcoming season.

[Desperado]

First three-peat wouldn't happen without Shaq's legendary dominance, so who cares what Kobe did since he played second fiddle.

Be happy with the current 2-peat and possible 3-peat this upcoming season.

First 3-peat wouldn't happen without Kobe's legendary clutch performances and dominating performances either.

Kobe may have been treated as a second fiddle but his skill set and the level he was playing at especially in 2001 and 2002 was far beyond that of a second fiddle. If he was on any other team in the league without Shaq he would have likely been the first option, Shaq was a 7'1 380 pound dominating force and just unstoppable in his prime, of course he was gonna be the main first option.

That was part of the reason they split because one guy wanted to be ''the man''. They were both capable of being ''the man'' though and we even seen on numerous occasions situations unfold during the 3-peat were they toke turns being ''the man''.