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Old 07-08-2008, 12:52 PM   #16
Collie
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Also, I'm pretty sure given the chance, a guy like Redick can become an effective scorer in the NBA. The question is though, if its justified using him over a guy who does more than score/ also adds decent defense/ is a good distributor.

Ironically, the guy Utah traded for Hornacek - Jeff Malone - is similar to Redick in that they're both scorers and not much else
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Quote:
Stephen Curry's smooth stroke reminds me of how smooth and dominating Shawn Respert was in his senior year at Michigan State. Respert was an under-sized shooting guard as well. He arguably could create his own shot though. Now look at how successful his pro career was.

Respert was dealing with cancer diagnosis during his time in the league too, something he didn't go public with until long after his retirement. I loved Respert in college, and couldn't figure out why it didn't translate for him, because he was given an opportunity.


A personal story about just how great a shooter Horny was that I've told before on here.
I went to see Hornacek against the Nets at the old CAA many years ago, early in his Jazz career. We got there really early, and were sort of tooling around courtside, even though our seats were up higher. We were down on the floor level under the Jazz hoop, when Horny came out with a trainer to work out a little. He was the first guy out, and after a couple of quick dribbling warm sequence, he went to the free throw line to start his shooting warm up. He shot three free throws, all of which went nearly dead through, just grazing the back side of the front of the rim. He yelled to his trainer that the rim was a quarter inch high, and went to the other end. The officials came out and measured, and I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't there, but it was just over a quarter inch too high. He figured that out after three shots from the stripe. The technicians came out and lowered the rim, they use a calibration unit from the floor up. Even they were talking about it.
I know everyone listed is a great shooter, but I'm not sure how many guys could do that.
I'd also say that Horny was a better passer, and more creative ball handler than pretty much anyone else listed. He was able to let Stockton play off the ball some when he was hot because of it. And he was a really good player prior to coming to Utah too, so while the system probably accentuated his skillset, he definitely wasn't a product of it.
There are certainly guys for which this question makes tons of sense. Jason Kapono, Kyle Corver. A lot of it is opportunity. In the case of Reddick, I was concerned with just how big a star he was in college. What would his mentality be like when he wasn't getting everything run too him anymore, which even his most optimistic supporters had to know was going to be the case. I think eventually he'll find that niche. That's the case with a lot of college stars that you know aren't going to translate into that same role at the NBA level. There's a mental approach that needs to be adjusted, and it doesn't always happen.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #18
luigi>mario
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Quote:
Originally Posted by brodiebooksrock
What separates Hornacek and his successes, from the college stars like Alford/Redick who couldn't find a way for their sharp-shooting/high basketball I.Q. to translate into similar success?
...
Why did guys like Hornacek, Mark Price, John Stockton work out, but the Alfords, Redicks, Hurleys, Bryce Drews not?

Hornacek used to practice crazy stuff. He would have players shove him as he drove to have planned circus shots. Stockton was just tough as nails and appreciated all aspects of the game--fair and less than fair--and worked on them all.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Alford played some of the worst defense Bob Knight stated he ever saw at Indiana. That Alford played at a school known for team defense to cover up players' athletic deficiencies should tell you about his defense.

The other thing that you can't see "on paper" is how Alford got his shots vs. a Kerr or a Stockton in college. Alford was a system guy that ran through a billion screens to finally get the open look from three point range that he drained 50% of the time. He was incredibly efficient under certain circumstances, and those circumstances required that IU use a lot of a 45 second shot clock to get him open from 20 feet.

No NBA team is going to run 5 screens in 24 seconds to put the ball in Steve Alford's hands with a bigger, faster player jumping at him while he tries to sink at 23 footer.

Alford was also not the primary ball handler on his team. He had guys like Stew Robinson, Winston Morgan, Joe Hillman, and Keith Smart bring the ball up the court and run the offense. Keith Smart had a cup of coffee in the NBA. If Alford wasn't even co-ball handler with a bunch of guys that couldn't even make an NBA roster, that should tell you that his ball handling wasn't very good.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Hornacek was significantly more athletic than Redick or Alford. He also had tremendous body control and superb concentration -- have you ever seen the wild shots Hornacek used to hit? He also had a better handle and much better vision -- he averaged 19/7 one year while at the point part time. He was just a much more savvy player overall, and a better shooter than either of them to boot.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

I remember a similar story about Bill Bradley. He did a few practice shots and figured out the ring wasn't regular height. I guess it's common with elite shooters.

Horny's jumper was money of course, but he could get to the hole using smarts and coz he had had to be played closely. Then in the paint he could throw up some wild layup or rainbow that went in.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Hornacek, Stockton, and Price all had big hearts and were NEVER too high and mighty to do the dirty work. Those guys never rested on their natural abilities, they continued to get better because they worked hard, learned, did what they were told, paid attention to details, dived on the floor, backed down to no one etc... They were more determined and harder workers.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:14 PM   #23
Da KO King
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

The reason JJ Redick is struggling to find his way is because he needs to have plays called him for a la Richard Hamilton. Let him run through some off ball screens and find an open look.

Unfortunately for Redick that style of play is no longer in vogue in NBA coaching circles.
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