The reason why luka wont win multiple chips

[DMAVS41]

They would go much further if giannis had a great jumper. The bucks sure couldn't use that succesful "close the paint down" defense on Kawhi like they did with Giannis in the playoffs.




Kobe had Waaaay more succes with less than a dirk or whoever your favorite is, not because of great teams, but because he hardly had any weaknesses unlike all the players you mentioned, therefore didn't need as much help.

I'll try to make this simple.

Saying Giannis would be better with a great jumper is akin to saying...Giannis would be better if Giannis was better.

We all agree he would be better. That isn't what is in dispute...

Don't you agree that Kobe would have been way better if he could drill 3's like Curry or defend like Giannis currently can?

Again, this is a non-statement...but, even if Kobe had a better 3 or Giannis had a better jumper...they still need championship level help to win.

Kobe had way less help than Dirk? I can't even put into words how dumb of a statement that is. He also didn't "nearly 3-peat"...he got swept as the favorite in 11 by that guy Dirk. Who didn't have near the championship level help Kobe did throughout his career. But again, that isn't even the point...the point is that Dirk shits on Kobe as a shooter from the mid-range and wing post...the very thing you say is so important. So I'd imagine someone considerably better than Kobe at it would have had countless titles if winning is so dependent on that...right? And Dirk was a better FT shooter and 3 point shooter...so, again, it isn't looking good for you. Maybe Kobe, like pretty much all players winning a bunch of titles...played with a lot of really good players. Just a thought...

KG does everything you are talking about and he barely won any playoff games for a decade. He's an all-time great defender and he had a great mid-range game...was really good in the post and a great passing big man. To argue that he was missing things from his game compared to Kobe or Duncan...and that is why he was losing...rather than just pointing out that obvious fact of him playing with garbage compared to them...again, is the height of either ignorance or stupidity.

[Bronbron23]

I'll try to make this simple.

Saying Giannis would be better with a great jumper is akin to saying...Giannis would be better if Giannis was better.

We all agree he would be better. That isn't what is in dispute...

Don't you agree that Kobe would have been way better if he could drill 3's like Curry or defend like Giannis currently can?

Again, this is a non-statement...but, even if Kobe had a better 3 or Giannis had a better jumper...they still need championship level help to win.

Kobe had way less help than Dirk? I can't even put into words how dumb of a statement that is. He also didn't "nearly 3-peat"...he got swept as the favorite in 11 by that guy Dirk. Who didn't have near the championship level help Kobe did throughout his career. But again, that isn't even the point...the point is that Dirk shits on Kobe as a shooter from the mid-range and wing post...the very thing you say is so important. So I'd imagine someone considerably better than Kobe at it would have had countless titles if winning is so dependent on that...right? And Dirk was a better FT shooter and 3 point shooter...so, again, it isn't looking good for you. Maybe Kobe, like pretty much all players winning a bunch of titles...played with a lot of really good players. Just a thought...

KG does everything you are talking about and he barely won any playoff games for a decade. He's an all-time great defender and he had a great mid-range game...was really good in the post and a great passing big man. To argue that he was missing things from his game compared to Kobe or Duncan...and that is why he was losing...rather than just pointing out that obvious fact of him playing with garbage compared to them...again, is the height of either ignorance or stupidity.

yes kg did have all of that criteria for a winner and he didn't win alot but he didn't have a great team. Its not like im saying the criteria i brought up is the only factor. Obviously other things matter also like a good team and coach. Leadership can matter also.

That said if you have 2 great teams matching up and one is lead by a player with elite defense and mid range and rhe other is more of a harden or luka type player im taking the the guy with defence and mid range.

[DMAVS41]

yes kg did have all of that criteria for a winner and he didn't win alot but he didn't have a great team. Its not like im saying the criteria i brought up is the only factor. Obviously other things matter also like a good team and coach. Leadership can matter also.

That said if you have 2 great teams matching up and one is lead by a player with elite defense and mid range and rhe other is more of a harden or luka type player im taking the the guy with defence and mid range.

I still think there is more information I'd need, but I've been saying basically that the entire time.

[knicksman]

I still thinks he wants to win i just think he truly thinks he can do it with his ball dominant style of play. He thinks he can get his stats and chips but its much harder that way. This is why i always thought mj was a better leader because he sacrificed his stats a bit for winning.

yeah of course. everyone wants to win. Its just that the fear of failure gets to him more than mj that hes willing to settle for less. Hes willing to settle for just MVPs rather than not be remembered at all like dominique. With his MVPs, people would still consider him an ATG but not GOAT like jordan.

[knicksman]

I don't think every skill is equal at all.

Individual offense overall is clearly more valuable than individual defense.

I'm just saying that the teams with the best players usually win...and so when you and this mid-range fetish thing start trying to attribute that as the main cause of titles...I just don't have patience for it.

Again, some of the best mid-range shooters ever have like 2 titles in 60 years of play....teammates matter a whole lot more than any single skill in basketball.

And, again, I love the wing post and mid-range shot. I completely agree that it matters for winning...but it isn't overcoming team strength like 99 out of 100 times. So focusing on it as the cause of titles is flawed...doesn't make it not important...it just isn't what you want it to be.

Again, do you really think the Warriors would have beaten the Rockets in 18 if the Rockets had current Giannis?

it takes 2 to tango. A great team without a great superstar is not going to succeed either. And a team lead by these mid range specialist are more likely to win than teams that arent. Thats why most players have kobe being better than lebron because for them, its not the triple doubles that make you better. Its the skills. Thats why kobe/jordan/bird are the greatest winners among the perimeter players. Thats because they are the most skilled/clutch players in history. And to be clutch, that midrange game is a must. Thats why its the most important for us. Its the best predictor for success.

A well built team like the bulls is not going to succeed when you replace it lebron but its still going to succeed with kobe. A kobe /cp3 is more likely to succeed than a lebron/cp3. Lebron needs a kobe while kobe doesnt so if your teams 1st option needs another 1st option then I dont think its worth building around that guy. There are players like dirk who only need roleplayers to win.

[DMAVS41]

it takes 2 to tango. A great team without a great superstar is not going to succeed either. And a team lead by these mid range specialist are more likely to win than teams that arent. Thats why most players have kobe being better than lebron because for them, its not the triple doubles that make you better. Its the skills. Thats why kobe/jordan/bird are the greatest winners among the perimeter players. Thats because they are the most skilled/clutch players in history. And to be clutch, that midrange game is a must. Thats why its the most important for us. Its the best predictor for success.

A well built team like the bulls is not going to succeed when you replace it lebron but its still going to succeed with kobe. A kobe /cp3 is more likely to succeed than a lebron/cp3. Lebron needs a kobe while kobe doesnt so if your teams 1st option needs another 1st option then I dont think its worth building around that guy. There are players like dirk who only need roleplayers to win.

I definitely agree about needing a superstar.

The examples you gave about Kobe/CP3 and Lebron/CP3 is just stylistic stuff. Not really a point. Like saying you wouldn't want Kobe/Iverson on the same team. Just obvious and utterly meaningless as each player will have optimal teams in terms of supporting casts.

Klay Thompson and Lebron make a lot more sense than Kobe/Klay...so I just don't see the point of this stuff.

Lebron needs a Kobe? You think so little of Kobe that 13 Wade is a fair comparison? Wade couldn't even get 20 a night on anything approaching acceptable efficiency the entire playoffs. If you are counting 13 Wade as "a Kobe"...then like...we just aren't speaking the same language.

[knicksman]

I definitely agree about needing a superstar.

The examples you gave about Kobe/CP3 and Lebron/CP3 is just stylistic stuff. Not really a point. Like saying you wouldn't want Kobe/Iverson on the same team. Just obvious and utterly meaningless as each player will have optimal teams in terms of supporting casts.

Klay Thompson and Lebron make a lot more sense than Kobe/Klay...so I just don't see the point of this stuff.

Lebron needs a Kobe? You think so little of Kobe that 13 Wade is a fair comparison? Wade couldn't even get 20 a night on anything approaching acceptable efficiency the entire playoffs. If you are counting 13 Wade as "a Kobe"...then like...we just aren't speaking the same language.

That US team is the best proof that lebron needs kobe. In 2016 it was kyrie who carried them when it matters. As Ive said, theres a correlation with clutch and winning. Thats why the 3 greatest winners bird/kobe/jordan are clutch. And you cant be clutch if you dont have that midrange game.

And if you think that not every skill is equal then why you guys judge players based on stats. Were not giving up kobes skillset for lebrons 3apg or 3rpg. We want our scorer to be playing off ball anyways so that 3apg means nothing just like his rpg. Its like hiring a cook. I dont care how good of a dishwasher you are or a floor mopper. If youre an average at best cook, then im choosing the excellent cook despite him not knowing how to wash dishes. Its the same in basketball. We dont care about apg, rpg. If youre not one of the best scorer, were not building around you. Simple as that. And the results speaks for itself. Lebron needed superteams. Thats too much for a GM

[DMAVS41]

That US team is the best proof that lebron needs kobe. In 2016 it was kyrie who carried them when it matters. As Ive said, theres a correlation with clutch and winning. Thats why the 3 greatest winners bird/kobe/jordan are clutch. And you cant be clutch if you dont have that midrange game.

And if you think that not every skill is equal then why you guys judge players based on stats. Were not giving up kobes skillset for lebrons 3apg or 3rpg. We want our scorer to be playing off ball anyways so that 3apg means nothing just like his rpg. Its like hiring a cook. I dont care how good of a dishwasher you are or a floor mopper. If youre an average at best cook, then im choosing the excellent cook despite him not knowing how to wash dishes. Its the same in basketball. We dont care about apg, rpg. If youre not one of the best scorer, were not building around you. Simple as that. And the results speaks for itself. Lebron needed superteams. Thats too much for a GM

I think you should go back and watch some Wade games from the 13 playoffs.

But, again, Shaq/Player X given the competition the Lakers faced...is just as impactful as the kind of help you are criticizing Lebron for.

Honestly, at times just better...there is no team Lebron has played on in which they could win a chip with him playing like Kobe did in the 00 Finals.

Who was "Kobe" on the 13 Heat in the playoffs?

[StrongLurk]

Luka won't win multiple chips because he is retiring after this year.