Lebron's early supporting casts > MJ's early casts (unrefuted proof inside)

[3ball]

Lebron didn't win FMVP on 14' and 15' [COLOR="Blue"]because he lost the series[/COLOR], not because any of the other players on the court in any way outperformed him.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]You're missing the point - we're talking about who is the better defender - Lebron let his man play FAR ABOVE THEIR NORMAL AVERAGE, whereas Jordan never did[/COLOR]

Iggy doubled his scoring average and increased his efficiency a ton, while Kawhi averaged 24 ppg on 70% in the last 3 games - this was also double his normal averages.

So while Lebron's defense allowed role players to double their averages, Jordan held down the averages of all-time greats.

Lebron has never won dpoy, even in today's small ball league, whereas Jordan won dpoy in the golden age of big men and towering shot blockers - he was a better defender than Lebron, which is why he holds down all-time greats and Lebron allows role players to run roughshod.

[ShawkFactory]

We know that 1989 Jordan had a superior brand of basketball than 2009 Lebron, because Jordan's brand was more successful and thrived in the higher-competition playoffs, while Lebron's brand was exposed:
.

[3ball]

Did you read the article or just the headline and hence skimmed as it doesnt suit the agenda?

Can Paxson or Kerr do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4u_Cn3N1K0


The reality is that Paxson and Kerr had far less talent than Chalmers, JR Smith or Ray Allen, but the Bulls had far greater TEAMWORK, which the 538 list doesn't consider.

The 538 list simply looks at role player production and equates that with talent, when having great teamwork and being a great TEAM helps role player production more than anything - that's how it's possible for the less-talented Paxson and Kerr to play better than Chalmers or JR Smith or Ray Allen.

So the 538 list is garbage and you shouldn't pay attention to it, even though it shows that Jordan won with weaker supporting casts (91', 93') than Lebron ever won with (12', 13', 16').

Did you read the article or just the headline and hence skimmed as it doesnt suit the agenda?

We know for a FACT that Jordan's supporting cast was far worse, since his first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring than Lebron's 3 rings, with equal or greater assists:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=416369
.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Pippen and Grant alone in 89 were both better than the majority of Lebron's supporting cast in 2009.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Lebron took Mo Williams as a second option all the way to the western conference finals.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Then again, the eastern conference was absolute garbage in 2009 outside of Dwight Howard Magic and Boston Big Three. The eastern conference was still great in 89.

[BedroomBully]

Can Paxson or Kerr do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4u_Cn3N1K0


The reality is that Paxson and Kerr had far less talent than Chalmers, JR Smith or Ray Allen, but the Bulls had far greater TEAMWORK, which the 538 list doesn't consider.

The 538 list simply looks at role player production and equates that with talent, when having great teamwork and being a great TEAM helps role player production more than anything - [COLOR="DarkRed"]that's how it's possible for the less-talented Paxson and Kerr to play better than Chalmers or JR Smith or Ray Allen[/COLOR].

So the 538 list is garbage and you shouldn't pay attention to it, even though it shows that Jordan won with weaker supporting casts (91', 93') than Lebron ever won with (12', 13', 16').



Btw, we know for a FACT that Jordan's supporting cast was far worse, since his first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring than Lebron's 3 rings, with equal or greater assists.

WTF are you talking about??? Is that your rebuttal for the article? Really? Way to deflect facts. You answer with comparing Paxson/Kerr to Chalmers and JR? Oh and by the way, Kerr/Kukoc>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chalmers/JR

[3ball]

Lebron took Mo Williams as a second option all the way to the western conference finals.

[COLOR="Red"]In 1989, Pippen was a 2nd year player who averaged 14/6 - he was nowhere NEAR a top 3 player at his position in the conference.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Otoh - in 2009, Mo Williams was a top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star).
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]So Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF with weaker talent relative to his competition than Lebron.[/COLOR]

[greymatter]

Lebron joined a 17W team and they won 35 his rookie year.
Jordan turned a 27W team into a 38W team his rookie year.

Lebron has only had 1 losing season his entire career. Jordan has had 5 losing seasons...3 if you wish to be generous and not count his Wizard days.

OP is and forever shall be a pathetic joke.

[MiseryCityTexas]

^^^ Such an ignorant comment.

In 1989, Pippen was a 2nd year player who averaged 14/6.. He was nowhere NEAR a top 3 player at his position.

Otoh, Mo Williams was a top 3 player at his position (all-star) in 2009.

So Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF with weaker talent relative to his competition than Lebron.

Pippen in 89 is still better than Mo Williams in 2009. You're just a Jordan nut hugger that just want to downplay his teammates while bigging up his game.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Then Jordan had Craig Hodges coming off the bench, who is a player that is pretty much similar to Mo Williams. (three point shooter).

[3ball]

Pippen in 89 is still better than Mo Williams in 2009. You're just a Jordan nut hugger that just want to downplay his teammates while bigging up his game.

But Shaq > Pippen, so Lebron should've won in 2010 when he had Shaq..

See how ignorant your statement is?

Pippen was nothing in 1989, whereas Mo Williams was an all-star and therefore a top 3 player at his position in the conference.

[BedroomBully]

[COLOR="Red"]In 1989, Pippen was a 2nd year player who averaged 14/6 - he was nowhere NEAR a top 3 player at his position.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Otoh, Mo Williams was a top 3 player at his position (all-star) in 2009.
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]So Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF with weaker talent relative to his competition than Lebron.[/COLOR]

Top 3 point guard in 2009???? Are you serious?http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...season/page/11
And the only reason why he made that All-Star team is because Bosh got injured and Lebron and Cavs org were bitching about Mo originally getting snubbed.

[3ball]

WTF are you talking about??? Is that your rebuttal for the article? Really? Way to deflect facts.

Accept the facts.. The 538 list is garbage because it doesn't consider teamwork.. The list simply looks at role player production and equates that with "talent", even though teamwork is the biggest factor affecting supporting cast production.

Since the 538 list doesn't consider teamwork, it's garbage and you shouldn't pay attention to it.... however, the list still shows that Jordan won with weaker supporting casts (91', 93') than Lebron ever won with (12', 13', 16')..

Indeed, even the flawed 538 list shows that Jordan won with less, which explains why his first 3 rings required 30% more scoring and greater assists than Lebron's 3 rings.

You answer with comparing Paxson/Kerr to Chalmers and JR? Oh and by the way, Kerr/Kukoc>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chalmers/JR

Can Paxson or Kerr do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4u_Cn3N1K0


The reality is that Paxson and Kerr had far less talent than Chalmers, JR Smith or Ray Allen, but the Bulls had far greater TEAMWORK.. Unfortunately, the 538 list doesn't consider teamwork, so the list is invalid, since teamwork is the biggest factor affecting supporting cast production.

Nonetheless, the list still shows that Jordan won with weaker supporting casts (91', 93') than Lebron ever won with (12', 13', 16').. Indeed, even the flawed 538 list shows that Jordan won with less, which explains why his first 3 rings required 30% more scoring and greater assists than Lebron's 3 rings.
.