Does Lebron really make his team mates better?

[Dresta]

Not only his previous teammates, but look at Chalmers, Cole, Wade, and Bosh's FG%. Chalmers and Cole went from looking like bench players to being straight up garbage.

That's just rubbish. Chalmers and Cole's inability to hit wide open shots has nothing to do with Lebron. They aren't missing contested looks, they are missing the most open of shots.

Chalmers shot 37% from 3 in his rookie season (without Bron), and he's shooting 29% this season. Both of them can barely get the ball over halfcourt these days. This all has very little to do with Bron.

Likewise, looking at FG% to gauge efficiency is stupid. Both Wade and Bosh have TS% that are higher than or equivalent to several of the seasons they played with Bron. Wade's FG% has dropped because his USG% is as high as it was in 09/10. Bosh's USG% has also increased significantly

Bron's, on the other hand, has decreased, along with his efficiency. That's a key distinction that needs to be made and has thus far been ignored in this thread.

Bron's USG% last year = 31; this year = 30.7

TS% last year = 65; this year = 58

Who's really dropped off here? Bosh & Wade had big increases in USG% and only small drop-offs in efficiency. Bron had a tiny decrease in USG% and a HUGE decrease in efficiency (while playing on a team loaded with 3-point shooters no less).

[kshutts1]

Better by which definition?

Better stats?
More effective/efficient?
More skills added to their repertoire?
More likely to win without said superstar?

I think that Lebron James' game puts his teammates into positions to be more successful than they would normally be without a Lebron-caliber player on their team.
I'm not saying their raw stats will be better, or that skills will magically be added, or that the team, without Lebron, will be good.

But I am saying that having a Lebron, Magic, Jordan, Oscar, West, Kobe, Durant, etc, on the same puts the other players in a better position to succeed on the court, most often through increased efficiency if not usage and raw stats.

Now, that's just a theory of mine. If someone were to post the stats of all the players that have ever played with the above, both with and without them in the game, and it showed that my theory is wrong.. so be it.

[ArbitraryWater]

People will point to Cavs record after LeBron left as a reason why he makes his teammates better but I'd argue it means the opposite.

Teammates that have the potential to be good to great become so reliant on Lebron's legendary ability to carry the team that they are eased into smaller and smaller roles over time which diminishes their play in the long run.

Kobetards reaching new lows of denial and excuse making

[ArbitraryWater]

He'll take average pieces, and make them contenders. But he marginalizes great talent given his jack of all trades, master of none playing style. Simply too much historical evidence that proves both to be true. Including this year's Cavaliers squad. Their record to talent ratio is way out of whack. There is 3 all-star starters on that team.

I don't see it... Bosh looks horrible without LeBron right now, efficiency way down... LeBron upped both Wade's and Bosh' percentages.

Love and Irving, Cavs without LeBron are 1-8.... nothing to support your statement.

At this point, LeBron being a top 3 GOAT is pretty much a look in terms of impact, given the on/off + with/without records of his teams, and comparing their percentages with/without LeBron + overall team's offensive/defensive rating. LeBron brings a significant improvement in all these categories.

[pauk]

Ofcourse when a guy who would shoot 20 FGA and is basically a PG joins your team your ball possessions, shots goes down...

But this goes for any great offensive player in NBA history....... take your guy there Michael Jordan for example and see how his teammates did in their primes statistically with and without him.......

Its just LOGIC...

That is not what making your teammates better means and it also goes beyond the court....

Say, me and you play with the Cavaliers.... Lebron is not there.... ingame me and you have to try create shots desperately, we will get more shots up, "statistically" we will be "better"... but we will lose the game miserably........ Lebron comes back, first of all pushes us in practice trying to help us improve our games over time and uses his bball IQ to tell how we should approach the game based on our best skills, all this to exploit WHAT WE CAN DO BEST.... the game comes on, he is now making OUR job much more easier and we win.........

So even though statistically we are worse.... we are still BETTER.... understand?

[305Baller]

I don't see it... Bosh looks horrible without LeBron right now, efficiency way down... LeBron upped both Wade's and Bosh' percentages.

Love and Irving, Cavs without LeBron are 1-8.... nothing to support your statement.

At this point, LeBron being a top 3 GOAT is pretty much a look in terms of impact, given the on/off + with/without records of his teams, and comparing their percentages with/without LeBron + overall team's offensive/defensive rating. LeBron brings a significant improvement in all these categories.

Just no.

[Quickening]

People complain that Lebron is more obsessed about his stats than winning... they then ignore the fact teams win far more games with him on them, players win far more games... and they just focus on individual player stats.

That irony

[tpols]

I don't see it... Bosh looks horrible without LeBron right now, efficiency way down... LeBron upped both Wade's and Bosh' percentages.
e/defensive rating. LeBron brings a significant improvement in all these categories.

Wade TS with LeBron = 58TS
Wade this season = 56TS
52 average field goal % to 50.

Bosh TS with LeBron = 58TS
Bosh this season = 58TS
51 FG % to 48.

Very small dropoffs.. 1-2 % max in overall efficncy

Now for bran..

62TS to 58TS
54FG to 49FG

hmm.. Looks like brans dropped off more than Bosh and Wade combined..

Aw getting exposed with stupid comments like the bold.. Again.. Shouldn't you be telling us how KG wasn't a great defender until he came to Boston and how Steve Nash is only a marginally worse defender than Jason kidd? Please enlighten us with some more of your shitty, unfounded or capable of being supported basketball opinions!

[Lebron23]

Say What???

Go Eat some poop Tpols.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol. Lebron saves the layups and dunks for himself and forces other players to take lower percentage attempts.

It's not that complicated. Chalmers never developed in a system with Lebron. Wiggins saw what was happening to younger guys that played with Lebron and encouraged the proposed Wiggins-Love trade.

If you watched the heat from 2011-2014,Lebron tried his hardest to keep a high FG%....even at the expense of team success.

[Bankaii]

Lol. Lebron saves the layups and dunks for himself and forces other players to take lower percentage attempts.

It's not that complicated. Chalmers never developed in a system with Lebron. Wiggins saw what was happening to younger guys that played with Lebron and encouraged the proposed Wiggins-Love trade.

If you watched the heat from 2011-2014,Lebron tried his hardest to keep a high FG%....even at the expense of team success.

Dude is completely incapable of making a non-shit post on anything concerning Lebron.