InsideHoops Top 25 NBA Forwards. Initial voting.

[Kblaze8855]

Couldnt hurt to count the new lists.

[L.Kizzle]

Ironically, I joined the party too late. I've been working on this list for the last two months. I've carried a book on me for weeks just so I could work on improvements at every possible moment : P

Anyhow, I'm writing it down anyway!
1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan

3. Julius Erving
4. John Havlicek
5. Karl Malone
6. Charles Barkley
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Kevin Garnett
9. LeBron James
10. Scottie Pippen
11. Bob Pettit
12. Rick Barry
13. Elvin Hayes
14. Elgin Baylor

15. Kevin McHale
16. Dennis Rodman
17. Paul Pierce
18. Dominique Wilkins
19. James Worthy
20. Dave DeBusschere
21. Billy Cunningham
22. Dolph Schayes
23. Paul Arizin
24. Alex English
25. Adrian Daintley

Let's get it on!!

Why the hell is Baylor at 14 explain your self.

[WillC]

1 - Larry Bird
2 - Tim Duncan
3 - Elgin Baylor
4 - Bob Pettit
5 - Julius Erving
6 - John Havlicek
7 - Dirk Nowitzki
8 - Karl Malone
9 - Rick Barry
10 - Charles Barkley
11 - Kevin Garnett
12 - LeBron James
13 - Scottie Pippen
14 - Elvin Hayes
15 - Kevin McHale
16 - Dominique Wilkins
17 - James Worthy
18 - Dennis Rodman
19 - Joe Fulks
20 - Dave DeBusschere
21 - Paul Pierce
22 - Bernard King
23 - Alex English
24 - Dolph Schayes
25 - Paul Arizin

[nycelt84]

1.Larrry Bird
2.Tim Duncan
3.Julius Erving
4.Karl Malone
5.John Havlicek
6.Kevin Garnett
7.Elgin Baylor
8.Bob Pettit
9.Charles Barkley
10.Dirk Nowitzki
11.Lebron James
12.Rick Barry
13.Scottie Pippen
14.Kevin McHale
15.Elvin Hayes
16.Jerry Lucas
17.Dolph Schayes
18.Paul Pierce
19.Billy Cunningham
20.Dave Debusschere
21.Dominique Wilkins
22.Paul Arizin
23.James Worthy
24.Dennis Rodman
25.Pau Gasol

[RRR3]

1.) Bird
2.) Duncan
3.) Erving
4.) Garnett
5.) K Malone
6.) Dirk
7.) Barkley
8.) Baylor
9.) Pippen
10.) Havlichek
11.) Pettit
12.) Barry
13.) Hayes
14.) McHale
15.) King
16.) Pierce
17.) Wilkins
18.) Carmelo
19.) Hill
20.) Worthy
21.) Lebron
22.) Schayes
23.) Arizin
24.) Webber
25.) Rodman

[RRR3]

Rough list (probably crappy but whatever)

1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Charles Barkley
4. Karl Malone
5. Julius Erving
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Bob Pettit
10. Lebron James
11. John Havlicek
12. Rick Barry
13. Dominique Wilkins
14. Elvin Hayes
15. Scottie Pippen
16. Kevin McHale
17. Dolph Schayes
18. Billy Cunningham
19. Paul Arizin
20. Adrian Dantley
21. Paul Pierce
22. Alex English
23. Chris Webber
24. Grant Hill
25. Bernard King/ James Worthy (eh

[1987_Lakers]

1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Julius Erving
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Karl Malone
6. Charles Barkley
7. Bob Pettit
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. LeBron James
10. John Havlicek
11. Rick Barry
12. Elgin Baylor
13. Scottie Pippen
14. Kevin McHale
15. Elvin Hayes
16. Dominique Wilkins
17. Paul Pierce
18. Jerry Lucas
19. Dennis Rodman
20. James Worthy
21. Billy Cunningham
22. Dave DeBusschere
23. Chris Webber
24. Adrian Dantley
25. Pau Gasol

[BlackJoker23]

kblaze once got hit in the nuts from goldusts shattered dreams true story

[BlueandGold]

Requesting permission to vote?

Also I'm down for making a top10 but I think a top25 is pretty excessive, considering how most players under25-30 would not have been able to see many of the great forwards play. Also if my vote is to be counted I would like to be able to say that I did put a decent amount of thought into my list and that it is made of entirely of players that I either have seen a good amount of footage to make a rational decision on their game or have seen a good portion of their careers unfold.

Here is my top10.

1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Julius Erving
4. Elgin Baylor
5. John Havlicek
6. Karl Malone
7. Charles Barkley
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Scottie Pippen
10. Kevin Mchale

[RobertdeMeijer]

Why the hell is Baylor at 14 explain your self.

Why the hell is Baylor at 14 explain your self.

Ah yes, that one does rather stick out doesn't it? And yet, he never impressed me much.
He's on the same tier as alot of almost-great players.
-He was the second best player on the second best team in the 60s.
-Eight finals counts for alot. But so does never winning a championship. Every time I hear about Elgin, I hear about how he missed being part of the 72 Lakers. That's a negative legacy.
-He never won an MVP (most of the guys I chose above him did)
-He won alot of All-NBAs, but so did Pettit, Barry and Hondo
-He went 38-19 in 1960-61, but that's the same year Wilt scored 50.4 and Oscar averaged a triple double. (Lakers went 36-43 that year)
-He compiled alot of stats, but only three times did he pass 10 win shares in the regular season.

Two things make him special really special to me: His jump shot, and how he reacted to that exhibition game in Charleston, West Virginia. Important things to remember, so he's on my list. He was really good, so he's among the best. But to me, he just wasn't as great.

[pauk]

1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Julius Erving
4. Karl Malone
5. Charles Barkley
6. Lebron James
7. Elgin Baylor
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Kevin Garnett
10. John Havlicek
11. Scottie Pippen
12. Bob Pettit
13. Rick Barry
14. Elvin Hayes
15. Kevin McHale
16. Dennis Rodman
17. Paul Pierce
18. Dominique Wilkins
19. James Worthy
20. Dave DeBusschere
21. Billy Cunningham
22. Dolph Schayes
23. Paul Arizin
24. Alex English
25. Adrian Daintley

[KGMN]

1. Larry Bird
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Julius Erving
5. Tim Duncan
6. Charles Barkley
7. Lebron James
8. Scottie Pippen
9. Bob Pettit
10. Elgin Baylor
11. John Havlicek
12. Elvin Hayes
13. Dirk Nowitzki
14. Kevin McHale
15. James Worthy
16. Rick Barry
17. Dominique Wilkins
18. Paul Pierce
19. Dennis Rodman
20. Alex English
21. Dolph Schayes
22. Dave DeBusschere
23. Shawn Kemp
24. Adrian Dantley
25. Chris Webber

[L.Kizzle]

Ah yes, that one does rather stick out doesn't it? And yet, he never impressed me much.
He's on the same tier as alot of almost-great players.

What is an almost great player? Like a Barkley or Malone cause they are ranked 10 spots or so higher than Baylor.


-He was the second best player on the second best team in the 60s.[/QUOTE]
What makes West the better player (especially in the 1960s.) Maybe towards the end of the decade like the last 2 seasons or so. The Lakers were Baylor team, but it was really 1a 1b starting around 62 season.

-Eight finals counts for alot. But so does never winning a championship. Every time I hear about Elgin, I hear about how he missed being part of the 72 Lakers. That's a negative legacy.

Dude was done by that time, he was hurting the team playing hurt. He played like 11 games that season. He was probably really done by 1969, he wasn't the same player. He got a long the last few seasons by talent alone.

-He never won an MVP (most of the guys I chose above him did)

Only 4 players won MVPs in the 60s, Russell, Wilt, Robertson and Unseld. Hondo, Pippen, Barry or Hayes don't have any MVP awards.

-He won alot of All-NBAs, but so did Pettit, Barry and Hondo

All his are first teams though, 11 straight. Even after not being the same player after that knee injure in the mid 60s'.
Baylor played in the same era as Pettit than later on Hondo and Barry. He was considered better than all three, even without the rings cause he was just that good. If Baylor had just one ring we're talking about a top 5 player all-time. Dude just misses out on most people's top ten list without a ring or MVP, who does that ... Elgin Baylor that's who.

-He went 38-19 in 1960-61, but that's the same year Wilt scored 50.4 and Oscar averaged a triple double. (Lakers went 36-43 that year)

That same year, he was drafted into the US Military. He only played the weekend games. I'm pretty sure most of those loses came when he was doing service on the weekdays.
In the NBA Finals that years, he drops 61 points on the Celtics. Still the record almost 50 years later

-He compiled alot of stats, but only three times did he pass 10 win shares in the regular season.

?

[PTB Fan]

Want to join the project. Here's my list

1.Larry Bird
2.Tim Duncan
3.Elgin Baylor
4.John Havlicek
5.Karl Malone
6.Bob Pettit
7.Charles Barkley
8.Kevin Garnett
9.LeBron James
10.Rick Barry

It's tough for the rest.

[RobertdeMeijer]

What is an almost great player? Like a Barkley or Malone cause they are ranked 10 spots or so higher than Baylor.

Yes, the forward spot is full of almost-greats. It probably has something to do with the possition: neither dominant in size, or the agility to take over. He's on the same big tier.
I admit, I made a glaring mistake: He belongs higher than Elvin Hayes.

-He was the second best player on the second best team in the 60s.

What makes West the better player (especially in the 1960s.) Maybe towards the end of the decade like the last 2 seasons or so. The Lakers were Baylor team, but it was really 1a 1b starting around 62 season.

Yes, it wasn't like he was a complete Robin. Something like Stockton to Malone; debatable. From my perspective, West had more remarkable moments, played better defense and had better statistics. But thing is, he never stuck out.

Dude was done by that time, he was hurting the team playing hurt. He played like 11 games that season. He was probably really done by 1969, he wasn't the same player. He got a long the last few seasons by talent alone.



Only 4 players won MVPs in the 60s, Russell, Wilt, Robertson and Unseld. Hondo, Pippen, Barry or Hayes don't have any MVP awards.

Yups, but Hondo and Pippen have a shitload of rings. Barry has a finals MVP. Hayes, ugh, again my bad : S

All his are first teams though, 11 straight. Even after not being the same player after that knee injure in the mid 60s'.
Baylor played in the same era as Pettit than later on Hondo and Barry. He was considered better than all three, even without the rings cause he was just that good. If Baylor had just one ring we're talking about a top 5 player all-time. Dude just misses out on most people's top ten list without a ring or MVP, who does that ... Elgin Baylor that's who.

Yups, it's bad luck. But championships count alot when it comes to greatness. He's on same tier as Barkley, Malone and LeBron. The same tier as really good players with almost-none/one ring guys Erving, Barry, Hayes, Nowitzki, Garnett. It's a big tier. If he had one ring as a dominant player, (= one moment in the spotlight), I'd put him higher than Barry, maybe even Pettit

That same year, he was drafted into the US Military. He only played the weekend games. I'm pretty sure most of those loses came when he was doing service on the weekdays.
In the NBA Finals that years, he drops 61 points on the Celtics. Still the record almost 50 years later

Granted, that is a great milestone

?
Win Shares is a stat that puts just about everything in the blender. One can point at points per game or rebounds per game to say how good Baylor is. But Win Shares takes more into account. And they say he only had a handful of great regular seasons. I'll admit his playoff Win Shares are better[/QUOTE]