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Old 06-24-2014, 03:13 AM   #106
Artillery
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Default Re: Tim Duncan according to basketball-reference

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Originally Posted by gts
Kareem has 3000+ more rebounds than Duncan and more steals.. Duncan has more blocks but never averaged more than 2.9 per game whereas Kareem has seasons of 4.1 and 4.0 per game and several over 3

also note that for Kareem's first 4 seasons they didn't keep block or steal stats

Kareem also has 5660 assists to Duncans 3832

I watched Kareem and I've watched Duncan and you are seriously underrating Kareem and overrating Duncan in these catergories

Head to head Kareem would dominate Duncan just like he did pretty much every other big man in his career

Kareem is not a better rebounder. KAJ has a career 15.7% total rebound percentage. Duncan, in comparison, has a career 18.5% TRB. It's very telling that KAJ's rebounding numbers fell off a cliff when the 80s rolled around. Usually good rebounders will continue to be good rebounders, even late in their careers. Not the case for Jabar. He put up respectable rebounding numbers when the league was in it's weakest era and proceeded to drop off in the 80s when there was more talent.

For example, KAJ at age 28 had an excellent 19.6% TRB. KAJ at age 38 had a very low 10.3% TRB.

Duncan at age 28 had a 19.4% TRB. Duncan at age 38 had a 18.8% TRB.

All the great rebounders(Barkley, Rodman, etc) in NBA history maintained their rebounding percentages late into their careers. Kareem didn't. Leads me to believe he was an average rebounder for his position.

As for passing. KAJ sits at a 14.6% career Assist Percentage. Duncan is at 16.4% career Assist Percentage.

Blocking? KAJ is a career 3.8% Block Percentage. Duncan is at 4.6% career Block Percentage.

Also, Duncan is one of the best defenders in NBA history. Kareem is possibly top 15 but still nowhere in Russell, Eaton, Ewing, Garnett, Duncan, or Robinson's class.

I will give you scoring. KAJ is probably the greatest of all-time scoring big man. Only Shaq has an argument with him in that category.

Last edited by Artillery : 06-24-2014 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:40 AM   #107
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Default Re: Tim Duncan according to basketball-reference

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Originally Posted by NumberSix
Barkley is probably the GOAT PF.

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Old 06-24-2014, 07:00 AM   #108
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Default Re: Tim Duncan according to basketball-reference

According to bball-reference Tim Duncan has spent nearly half of his career as a C and the other half as a PF.


In other words, prime Duncan is a PF.


(1997/98 - 2005/06) -> GOAT PF
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3 NBA Titles, 2 MVPs, 3 FMVPs

Selected to 8 All-NBA First teams


Quote:
Yeah but the 80's and 70's stats are inflated

1) the primary scoring option's usage percentage fluctuates within a narrow-band (25% - 30%).

With a few rare exceptions (Michael Jordan), usage percentages around 35% are detrimental to the team because the efficiency decreases as the usage increases and the other players don't feel involved.


2) However,the pace factor has wild fluctuations.


As you can see, peak Shaq has underwhelming statistics.




We need to distinguish between 1) players whose stats are inflated by pace,

and 2) players whose stats are the result of a combination of high usage + high efficiency.



Per 100 Team poss. is the best tool available (make sure they play a lot of minutes)


Duncan vs Kareem

- Kareem's first four seasons are not available.

- Both players deserve the utmost respect.

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Old 06-24-2014, 07:10 AM   #109
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Default Re: Tim Duncan according to basketball-reference

He is the GOAT combo big man.

(They have combo guards so why not combo big man?)
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:33 AM   #110
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Default Re: Tim Duncan according to basketball-reference

This is always such an odd argument. And its going nowhere. Duncan is gonna be remembered a 4 no matter what anyone thinks about it. You are what you are in your prime. Nobody becomes something else(part time at that) as they wind down then get remembered as it. Magic wasnt technically the point with Norm Nixon and later played the 3 and the 4. He didnt start his career as a point and he didnt end his career as a point. And even in his prime Michael Cooper played point for like 20 minutes a game with Magic playing 2-3-4. Michael Cooper put up back to back 15 assists games one year when Magic missed a few games. He was flat out a big point guard for whole stretches of games and seasons.

Magic came in as a swingman playing with an all star point who was getting bigtime assists....he moved to play point mostly...bu still played other positions depending on matchups....and even when he was a point he guarded mostly other positions....at the end of his career he was a power forward...and his most famous game was at center.

And yet....Magic is the GOAT point guard.

Duncan is more of a 4 than Magic is a 1.

Both will be remembered at those positions though.

The rest is just complaining that will get nowhere.
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