#1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

[3ball]

Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.

Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs.

This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
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[plowking]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

[AirBonner]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

slayed

[warriorfan]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.

[navy]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

[AirBonner]

Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.

You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan

[warriorfan]

You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan

After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

[AirBonner]

After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him

[warriorfan]

I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him

Yeah Jordan got just as much benefit from playing with Pippen as Pippen did with Jordan.

You have exposed yourself as a troll. You can get the f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ck out now.

[aj1987]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?

[Dr Hawk]

#1 criteria should be how high was a player's on court impact.

that's why I have Olajuwon comfortably in the Top5

[plowking]

Bulls without Jordan - 55 wins
Lebron James on the Heat in his final year - 54 wins

So Jordan essentially lost to the Magic with a team better than the 2014 Miami Heat. Meanwhile Bron was able to get a worse team to the final.

Bron making his teammates better once again.

[warriorfan]

REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?

Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.

[3ball]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

[COLOR="Navy"]Jordan's team won every series where Pippen played poorly - in those series, Jordan simply carried the team and didn't worry about Pippen.

But anytime Jordan needed Pippen to play well to win the series, he made sure Pippen was playing well[/COLOR].

There was only a ONE game where Scottie's poor performance caused the Bulls to lose, and Jordan was helpless to do anything about it - this was Pippen's epic choke in Game 7 of ECF (1-10 for 2 points), where Pippen admitted the pressure got to him.. Not much MJ could do about that.

[aj1987]

Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.

So, what happened during the 2nd 3peat? MJ stopped pushing him? Also, what about the dozens of other athletic players? He couldn't develop them into at least Kevin Martin level offensive players? How about Bill Cartwright? Luc Longley? Bosh was a better rebounder than them.