How far short of GOAT consideration is Shaq?

[32Dayz]

lol 9th..

The only players you can legitmately argue have a case over Shaq are.

Jordan, Kareem and maybe Magic/Wilt.

He is at worst the 5th greatest player ever.

How many players were as consistently Dominant and excellent in the playoffs year after year. I mean he was playing at a GOAT level in the playoffs in 94,95,96,98,00,01,02,03,04. and also in a few series b4 they were eliminated in 97.

Was still one of the better players in the league in 05 and 06 (he was the MVP of the 05 Regular Season)

was a 20/10 guy in 06 all the way up until the Finals where he took a backseat to Wade and was absolutely Dominant in the Chicago and Detroit series.

The only players who can even compare to Shaq in terms of such excellence year after year in the playoffs are Jordan and Kareem.

And Honestly Kareem didn't have his consistent or dominance and in the middle of his Prime actually failed to miss the playoffs. Shaq consistently led his teams to 50+ wins and when they lost he was still usually the best player in those series.

I'll post a thread soon detailing his play in the 90's.

As for rebounding he was always in the top 2-3 in the league in comparison to his peers. The idea that he could be called bad rebounder is retarded.

He is also #1 in playoff rebounds
(Total, 0ffensive and Defensive)

Has an absurd number of 20 rebound games in the regular season and playoffs.

[ThaRegul8r]

lol 9th..

He said "at worst." As in, the absolute worst Shaq can be ranked factoring all his flaws and shortcomings, is 9th.

The only players you can legitmately argue have a case over Shaq are Jordan, Kareem and maybe Magic/Wilt.

Magic is a definite, not a "maybe" for me. Arguably GOAT offensive player, mismatch problem, second only to Russell in leading his team to consistent success (9 Finals, 5 titles). He didn't do stupid crap to prematurely end a dynasty. Only an injury ruined his opportunity to threepeat, but that's how it goes. Russell's no question ahead, but people who only look at volume scoring and basketball-reference will never understand.

[DuMa]

4000 FTs

[rodman91]

"There is only one god and Pippen is his prophet."

[32Dayz]

As great as Magic was 0ffensively I think Shaq is the GOAT 0ffensive player.

He was one of if not the best ever in the way he impacted opposing defenses and his ability to make players around him better.

Also was a great defensive anchor which Magic was not.

I think Shaq had a better Prime then Magic and obviously better longevity. I rank him ahead of both Magic and Bird.

[ThaRegul8r]

As for rebounding he was always in the top 2-3 in the league in comparison to his peers. The idea that he could be called bad rebounder is retarded.

He is also #1 in playoff rebounds
(Total, 0ffensive and Defensive)

That's a lie. Russell is #1 in playoff rebounds. Shaq retired third behind Russell and Chamberlain. When I catch people lying in support of whatever player they're stanning/fanboying for, I have a tendency not to take anything they say seriously, since if people will lie once, they'll lie again when it suits their agenda.

[32Dayz]

It wasn't a lie.. it was mistake.
Still #1 for this Generation.

Why would I lie about something that can easily be looked up in 5 seconds?

I respect you Lauber but dont be so sensitive.. I respect all players and I dont stan for anyone.

And he is #1 in 0ffensive rebounds although Wilt may have been better they just didnt track them back in the day.

[JMT]

Well, he's no better than the 4th center ever. Then there's Jordan to consider and Magic was pretty clearly a more impactful player.

So 6th at best, though I have him closer to the 9-11 slot.

Loved Shaq. Very entertaining, awe inspiring when at his best, and it was good to see a guy actually playing the center position in the NBA the way it was meant to be played.

Problem is, he was one of the very few. Played in a weak era of bigs throughout the majority of his career.

Never a great rebounder, especially considering the above. People here like to call him "the most dominant player" etc, but did he ever win a rebound title? Averaged just over 10 per game for his career, and didn't eclipse the 10 per gm mark since his first season in Miami.

An ok defender. Not a great shot blocker, and a liability defending the pick and roll through much of his career. Heavier he got the slower he got.

Which leads us to his lack of commitment to the game and conditioning. The last half dozen years...actually beginning the last two seasons in LA...he didn't work to stay in shape. Tried to use the regular season to get in shape for the playoffs in LA, which failed miserably. After that he barely made an effort as his hot dog neck turned into bratwurst.

Great interview. At his best a fantastic player. But not near the player the big 3 (Wilt, Russell, KAJ) were.

[32Dayz]

An ok defender. Not a great shot blocker

What a retard.

The only Center who can be considered better then Shaq is Kareem.

The only Centers that have near his longevity are Duncan/Kareem and only Kareem is better in that sense.

Shaq has arguably the best Prime of any player ever and best 5 year stretch 98-02.

Shaq is the most unstoppable and effective 0ffensive player in league history.

The only Centers who were better defensively were Hakeem/ Russell.
I'd give Duncan a small edge also but they were pretty much equal in defensive impact when comparing Young and Prime years.

Shaq was one of the best shot blockers ever, best M2M Defenders ever from his position and at controlling the paint and protecting the rim.

He wasn't the best ever at PNR defense but he was certainly not poor at it in his Young and Prime years and it was not a liability of his.

Shaq is at "Worst" #5 on the GOAT list behind Jordan/Kareem/Wilt/Magic.
Personally I think he was better then Kareem at both ends of the floor and he was a far better rebounder.

Kareem has slightly better longevity and won more due to luck + supporting Casts but I do not think he was the better player.
Bill won alot but cmon as an individual player he isnt better then Shaq/Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem and should not be ranked ahead of them.

Jordan > Shaq > Kareem > Wilt and on we go..

[JMT]

Shaq is the most unstoppable and effective 0ffensive player in league history.

Ever hear of Wilt?

[305Baller]

What else would he need on his resume to have a legit GOAT case, ie. would 2 x more rings sufficed. Also, how high can Shaq be rated on a best case scenario type basis, giving him the benefit of all doubt?

Lastly, did Shaq overachieve, underachieve or did his career pan out more or less how it was supposed to?

Shaq underachived. He was THIS CLOSE to honing his game to GOAT status but his bad habits cost him time and his body slowed too quickly for him to get to the next level. Still 2nd best all-time center..

[32Dayz]

Ever hear of Wilt?

Shaq was a better 0ffensive player.

Adjusting for pace (which matters obviously) Shaq always scores on better or at worst equal volume in the playoffs on significantly better efficiency.

The 3 best Scorers/0ffensive players in NBA History are
Jordan/Kareem and Shaq.

Wilt is probably right after those guys but he is clearly behind them (imo).

[JMT]

Shaq was a better 0ffensive player.

Adjusting for pace (which matters obviously) Shaq always scores on better or at worst equal volume in the playoffs on significantly better efficiency.

The 3 best Scorers/0ffensive players in NBA History are Jordan/Kareem/Shaq.

You keep relying on that one stat on which you always hang your hat.

Your analysis of players shows pretty clearly that you need the help.

And grow up. Most others appear capable of having these discussions without calling people names. Nothing less impressive than an internet tough guy.

[32Dayz]

You keep relying on that one stat on which you always hang your hat.

Your analysis of players shows pretty clearly that you need the help.

ok so lets just ignore the amount of shots a player took, the pace of the game when he played and so many other factors because the only thing that matters is JMT's personal opinion.

Even though I have seen JMT post many times before and know he is personally biased against Oneal and dislikes him.

[Pointguard]

It wasn't a lie.. it was mistake.
Still #1 for this Generation.

Why would I lie about something that can easily be looked up in 5 seconds?

I respect you Lauber but dont be so sensitive.. I respect all players and I dont stan for anyone.

And he is #1 in 0ffensive rebounds although Wilt may have been better they just didnt track them back in the day.

You a funny dude. You know full well that isn't Jlauder.