Cool fact: Why MJ is the undisputed GOAT and who's right behind him

[Dragic4Life]

Michael Jordan had 7 straight seasons of the highest PER rating in the league. Only Wilt has done the same. Lebron James has the next best streak at 6.

Really puts things into perspective huh.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's the ultimate stat that exposes the real deals and the frauds. It's been scientifically proven by the team at ESPN laboratories.

One of the most notable frauds it exposes is Kobe. The stats just DON'T add up.

[nathanjizzle]

sorry but using algorithms to determine greatness is stupidity. there are tangibles that dont show up on the stat sheet. especially for jordan that is far beyond 7 to lebrons 6

[AnaheimLakers24]

6 > 5 = 5 >>>>>>>>>> 2*

[The Choken One]

KAJ

[Roundball_Rock]

sorry but using algorithms to determine greatness is stupidity. there are tangibles that dont show up on the stat sheet. especially for jordan that is far beyond 7 to lebrons 6

IBM had a best player award in the 90's. David Robinson was what the computer would spit out nearly every year...He was a great player but not as good as his statistics would suggest. I think he is 4th all-time in PER, and that is with having several role player seasons to drag down his career average at the end of his career.

KAJ actually has the record for leading the league in PER, doing so 9 times in his first 12 seasons. The three years he was not #1 he was #2. He led the league in PER 8 times during a 9 season stretch.

Top 10 all-time in PER

NBA
Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Chris Paul 25.59
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Dwyane Wade 25.29
9. Neil Johnston* 24.69
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63

KAJ is 11th due to his average going down later in his career. PER assumes 0 steals and 0 blocks for older era players like Wilt and KAJ's first years so their numbers are deflated...

[ottooooooo]

how can mj be the undisputed goat when hes goatness is so often in disputement?

[Marchesk]

Does anyone on ISH have Neil Johnston in their top 10?

[RRR3]

Does anyone on ISH have Neil Johnston in their top 10?

I definitely have him in my top Neils

[kennethgriffin]

IBM had a best player award in the 90's. David Robinson was what the computer would spit out nearly every year...He was a great player but not as good as his statistics would suggest. I think he is 4th all-time in PER, and that is with having several role player seasons to drag down his career average at the end of his career.

KAJ actually has the record for leading the league in PER, doing so 9 times in his first 12 seasons. The three years he was not #1 he was #2. He led the league in PER 8 times during a 9 season stretch.

Top 10 all-time in PER

NBA
Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Chris Paul 25.59
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Dwyane Wade 25.29
9. Neil Johnston* 24.69
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63

KAJ is 11th due to his average going down later in his career. PER assumes 0 steals and 0 blocks for older era players like Wilt and KAJ's first years so their numbers are deflated...

so people actually use PER to prop up guys. but then we find out neil johnston, dwyane wade, bob pettit, david robinson, chris paul and charles barkley are top 10 players all time using this formula

and doesnt pau gasol have a higher career PER than magic johnson?





i swear its like people just slap together a collection of things that average out to whatever they wanna push as their agenda

hollinger wanted to prop up lebron. that was his thing. so he put together a PER that made him look better than others.

little did he know it contradicted history































/thread

[JtotheIzzo]

I am gonna coin it here first. "Non-center GOAT" will be a new category so all the fanboys can diminish the achievements of Kareem and Russell and big up Kobe and LeBron.

[GimmeThat]

Jordan has 6 of the top 20 PER seasons.

so that easily puts him right there.



as for being undisputed.


if you can prove that having the highest PER by team equates to a championship

I agree.

[StephHamann]

NBA
Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Chris Paul 25.59
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Dwyane Wade 25.29
9. Neil Johnston* 24.69
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63

So Dirk beat two Top 10 players of all time in their prime?

How great is our Dirk?

[kennethgriffin]

So Dirk beat two Top 10 players of all time in their prime?

How great is our Dirk?

and lebron had the 8th best player all time as his side kick and got beat by some unranked dude

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan has 6 of the top 20 PER seasons.

so that easily puts him right there.

That is because PER assumes Wilt never stole the ball or blocked a shot. It also assumes KAJ never had a steal or block for his first four seasons.

As far as the top 20 seasons go here is the list:

Rank Player PER Season Tm

1. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.82 1962-63 SFW
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.74 1961-62 PHW
3. Michael Jordan* 31.71 1987-88 CHI
4. LeBron James 31.67 2008-09 CLE
5. Michael Jordan* 31.63 1990-91 CHI
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.63 1963-64 SFW
7. LeBron James 31.59 2012-13 MIA
8. Michael Jordan* 31.18 1989-90 CHI
9. Michael Jordan* 31.14 1988-89 CHI
10. LeBron James 31.11 2009-10 CLE
11. LeBron James 30.74 2011-12 MIA
12. David Robinson* 30.66 1993-94 SAS
13. Shaquille O'Neal 30.65 1999-00 LAL
14. Shaquille O'Neal 30.55 1998-99 LAL
15. Dwyane Wade 30.36 2008-09 MIA
16. Tracy McGrady 30.27 2002-03 ORL
17. Shaquille O'Neal 30.23 2000-01 LAL
18. Chris Paul 29.96 2008-09 NOH
19. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.94 1971-72 MIL
20. Michael Jordan* 29.78 1986-87 CHI

So LeBron has four of the eleven highest seasons and the best playoff run (Hakeem playing 4 games does not count).

and doesnt pau gasol have a higher career PER than magic johnson?

No, Magic is 14th in PER and Gasol is 37th. Here are the career PER's for active players:

Rank Player PER

1. LeBron James 27.79
2. Chris Paul 25.59
3. Dwyane Wade 25.29
4. Tim Duncan 24.56
5. Kevin Durant 24.53
6. Dirk Nowitzki 23.48
7. Kobe Bryant 23.36
8. Kevin Garnett 22.92
9. Dwight Howard 22.09
10. Amar'e Stoudemire 22.03
11. Pau Gasol 21.49
12. Manu Ginobili 21.46
13. Carmelo Anthony 21.17
14. Al Jefferson 20.84
15. Elton Brand 20.72
16. Chris Bosh 20.62
17. Paul Pierce 20.36
18. Vince Carter 20.03
19. LaMarcus Aldridge 19.98
20. Steve Nash 19.95

Boozer is 21st, Randolph 22nd.