Is ESPN at it again? Magic Johnson has the most 25-10-10 games?

[32jazz]

They did say since the merger and whpo are these people criticizing Wilt for sleeping with women. LOLJust because people make a Jk doesn't mean they are criticizing Wilt.

That's the point we are making knucklehead. Who are they to decide what era is relevant? Just because it is pre ESPN/Dream Team/80's their records are irrelevant? Those aren't even records ESPN spews & it does matter to people like Big O,Rick Barry,(and true fans of basketball) etc... that they are basically being removed from the 'popular' imagination.

Dude. Wilt was roundly criticized/vilainized by the fans & media(Arthur Ashe among other prominent Blacks as well/womens rights groups) for saying this & playing into the stereotype of the Black male & their supposed hypersexuality.

Roundly criticize for carelessly boasting about sexual escapades in the HIV era although he never gave HIV to anyone unlike the media darling MAGIC JOHNSON who 'possibly'/wrecklessy infected dozens & boasted(to dispell rumors he was GAY) about sleeping with 6 women at one time & sleeping with countless others.
What the hell can you do with 6 damn women any way

That one outrageous comment has nearly defined Wilt as a person now.

Keep on believing the media wouldn't villainize post DreamTeam players like MELO/AI/KG if they spit on an 8 year old girl during a game, or get arrested for assaulting fans/DUI, or out of Frustration declare their dislike for White People (Barkley did all of those things).
They would be vilainized but they can't kiss Barkley's fat rear end enough.

Magic boasted about sleeping with 6 women at a single time & possibly infecting them & dozen of others With HIV ,but he just like Barkley /Dream Team era players remained a media darling.

[EricForman]

That's the point we are making knucklehead. Who are they to decide what era is relevant? Just because it is pre ESPN/Dream Team/80's their records are irrelevant? Those aren't even records ESPN spews & it does matter to people like Big O,Rick Barry,(and true fans of basketball) etc... that they are basically being removed from the 'popular' imagination.

Dude. Wilt was roundly criticized/vilainized by the fans & media(Arthur Ashe among other prominent Blacks as well/womens rights groups) for saying this & playing into the stereotype of the Black male & their supposed hypersexuality.

Roundly criticize for carelessly boasting about sexual escapades in the HIV era although he never gave HIV to anyone unlike the media darling MAGIC JOHNSON who 'possibly'/wrecklessy infected dozens & boasted(to dispell rumors he was GAY) about sleeping with 6 women at one time & sleeping with countless others.
What the hell can you do with 6 damn women any way

That one outrageous comment has nearly defined Wilt as a person now.

Keep on believing the media wouldn't villainize post DreamTeam players like MELO/AI/KG if they spit on an 8 year old girl during a game, or get arrested for assaulting fans/DUI, or out of Frustration declare their dislike for White People (Barkley did all of those things).
They would be vilainized but they can't kiss Barkley's fat rear end enough.

Magic boasted about sleeping with 6 women at a single time & possibly infecting them & dozen of others With HIV ,but he just like Barkley /Dream Team era players remained a media darling.

You are really insecure to think ESPN has some reason to kiss Barkleys butt and find everyway to villainize someone like Melo or KG. please.

I agree there is media biase for the brightest of stars --Magic, MJ, Kobe, Lebron. But you're carrying this conspiracy theory too far.

And people love Chuck because he's the most honest and real celebrity in the world. And unlike KG or Kobe or Lebron, he'll actually beat you down if you get aggressive with him on the court. The othre three? They'll give a stare and then walk away becuase they dont want none.

[vert48]

What the hell can you do with 6 damn women any way

Don't knock it until you try it

[guy]

That's the point we are making knucklehead. Who are they to decide what era is relevant? Just because it is pre ESPN/Dream Team/80's their records are irrelevant? Those aren't even records ESPN spews & it does matter to people like Big O,Rick Barry,(and true fans of basketball) etc... that they are basically being removed from the 'popular' imagination.

Dude. Wilt was roundly criticized/vilainized by the fans & media(Arthur Ashe among other prominent Blacks as well/womens rights groups) for saying this & playing into the stereotype of the Black male & their supposed hypersexuality.

Roundly criticize for carelessly boasting about sexual escapades in the HIV era although he never gave HIV to anyone unlike the media darling MAGIC JOHNSON who 'possibly'/wrecklessy infected dozens & boasted(to dispell rumors he was GAY) about sleeping with 6 women at one time & sleeping with countless others.
What the hell can you do with 6 damn women any way

That one outrageous comment has nearly defined Wilt as a person now.

Keep on believing the media wouldn't villainize post DreamTeam players like MELO/AI/KG if they spit on an 8 year old girl during a game, or get arrested for assaulting fans/DUI, or out of Frustration declare their dislike for White People (Barkley did all of those things).
They would be vilainized but they can't kiss Barkley's fat rear end enough.

Magic boasted about sleeping with 6 women at a single time & possibly infecting them & dozen of others With HIV ,but he just like Barkley /Dream Team era players remained a media darling.

LOL at Barkley not being villainized for the stuff he's done. Dude pretty much lost an MVP because of it.

[guy]

You are really insecure to think ESPN has some reason to kiss Barkleys butt and find everyway to villainize someone like Melo or KG. please.

I agree there is media biase for the brightest of stars --Magic, MJ, Kobe, Lebron. But you're carrying this conspiracy theory too far.

And people love Chuck because he's the most honest and real celebrity in the world. And unlike KG or Kobe or Lebron, he'll actually beat you down if you get aggressive with him on the court. The othre three? They'll give a stare and then walk away becuase they dont want none.

Funny thing is I doubt they really care. They just want to be consistent with the thread about Jordan/Durant. They're changing there stance from "the media is favorable to Jordan" to "the media is favorable to the Dream Team era". Like I said before, there is no reason for ESPN to INTENTIONALLY kiss old athletes asses.

[32jazz]

[QUOTE=guy]LOL at Barkley not being villainized for the stuff he's done. Dude pretty much lost an MVP because of it.[/QUOTE

Does Barkley still dislike White People? Did he marry a White woman to stick it to the Man?

[G.O.A.T]

LOL at Barkley not being villainized for the stuff he's done. Dude pretty much lost an MVP because of it.

Only player to not win the MVP when he recieved the most first place votes

[32jazz]

Don't knock it until you try it

I can imagine ,but like someone surmised that must be hell of a lot of pressure to perform with 6 women in the damn bed.


Magic is my favorite player ,but the fact is the man boasted about these things(to prove he wasn't GAY) despite the fact that he may have infected dozens or more people directly or indirectly with HIV.Magic's careless indiscretions got less run/criticism than the more harmless stupidity of Wilt's words.

Despite this he still is a media darling from the Dream Team/Golden 80's era.
They can seem to do no wrong.

[EricForman]

Funny thing is I doubt they really care. They just want to be consistent with the thread about Jordan/Durant. They're changing there stance from "the media is favorable to Jordan" to "the media is favorable to the Dream Team era". Like I said before, there is absolutely no reason for ESPN to INTENTIONALLY kiss old athletes asses.

Well, you be insecure all you want. I think ESPN simply left out the older, more crazy stats for context purposes. Again, if you dont know anything about th eleague and just look at the stats. what's your first impression?

"Man the league today sucks, how come no one can even come 60% close to Wilt's numbers?"

This is a reasoning I ALWAYS use and none of the oldtime-defenders have ever addressed/debunked the theory--if Wilts stats are to be taken seriously...then how can we even watch basketball today? How are we supposed to get excited over a 25/24 game if Wilt was literally dropping that in his sleep? Are we supposed to believe that Hakeem wasn't even 2/3 as good as Wilt? Afterall, Hakeem's best statlines would be an off night for Wilt the year he averaged 50/25.

So the reason we all still watcha nd get excited today is because deep down, we all know stats back then were skewed and cant be taken serously. I'm not saying dismiss them completely and think old timers are trash. But CONTEXT is key. There isnt a doubt in my mind both Lebron and Magic would average more rebounds and assists than Oscar if they all played in the same league in the same year. So what does that mean? That means we stop going "OMGZ OSCAR AVERAGED TRIPLE DOUBLEZZZ" and realize that Magic's 21/12/9 and Lebron's 30/9/8 are probably more impressive. That's why both guys will rank higher than Oscar on the all time ranking when it's all said and done (I'm banking on Lebron topping Oscar's epic resume of one title as the second best player)

[guy]

Well, you be insecure all you want. I think ESPN simply left out the older, more crazy stats for context purposes. Again, if you dont know anything about th eleague and just look at the stats. what's your first impression?

"Man the league today sucks, how come no one can even come 60% close to Wilt's numbers?"

This is a reasoning I ALWAYS use and none of the oldtime-defenders have ever addressed/debunked the theory--if Wilts stats are to be taken seriously...then how can we even watch basketball today? How are we supposed to get excited over a 25/24 game if Wilt was literally dropping that in his sleep? Are we supposed to believe that Hakeem wasn't even 2/3 as good as Wilt? Afterall, Hakeem's best statlines would be an off night for Wilt the year he averaged 50/25.

So the reason we all still watcha nd get excited today is because deep down, we all know stats back then were skewed and cant be taken serously. I'm not saying dismiss them completely and think old timers are trash. But CONTEXT is key. There isnt a doubt in my mind both Lebron and Magic would average more rebounds and assists than Oscar if they all played in the same league in the same year. So what does that mean? That means we stop going "OMGZ OSCAR AVERAGED TRIPLE DOUBLEZZZ" and realize that Magic's 21/12/9 and Lebron's 30/9/8 are probably more impressive. That's why both guys will rank higher than Oscar on the all time ranking when it's all said and done (I'm banking on Lebron topping Oscar's epic resume of one title as the second best player)

I completely agree. I think alot of the people complaining about it don't realize that most casual fans that aren't that familiar with the history of the game do not realize some of the significant differences in the way the game is played today and then 30 years ago. If they did, they would think 60s players were twice as good rebounders as they are today and Wilt was literally twice as good as someone like Shaq. They would think "what's so good about guys like Jordan and Lebron when Oscar put up much better numbers?" You cannot really compare the eras. And thats what those "after the merger" stats are for, and even with that being the case, I've still seen ESPN post records including EVERYONE plenty of times.

[guy]

[QUOTE=32jazz]

LOL at Barkley not being villainized for the stuff he's done. Dude pretty much lost an MVP because of it.[/QUOTE

Does Barkley still dislike White People? Did he marry a White woman to stick it to the Man?

What does that have anything to do with anything?

[jlauber]

It just amazes me...

Do I think Oscar would average 10 rpg in today's era? Well, how about this...6-8 Dennis Rodman DOMINATED a league of 7-2+ centers, and a 6-3 GUARD, Fat Lever not only led his team in rebounding in the late 80's, he was among the league leaders.

Wilt averaging 50 ppg in today's game? No way right? Just like there was no way a player would score 81 points in a game just a few short years ago...in a league that averaged less than 100. Or Shaq averaging 38-16 in a Finals just 10 years ago, or even 33-15 against the DPOY Motumbo. If Shaq could post those kinds of numbers, why not Wilt with 40+ or more...especially against the inferior clods that he would face almost nightly?

Today's fans diminish the records of the past, because they can't accept the fact that yesterday's players could possibly be any better than any of today's. It will be interesting 20 years from now, when that generation makes fun of Jordan, and saying that he would be riding the bench in their era.

[G.O.A.T]

It just amazes me...

Do I think Oscar would average 10 rpg in today's era? Well, how about this...6-8 Dennis Rodman DOMINATED a league of 7-2+ centers, and a 6-3 GUARD, Fat Lever not only led his team in rebounding in the late 80's, he was among the league leaders.

Wilt averaging 50 ppg in today's game? No way right? Just like there was no way a player would score 81 points in a game just a few short years ago...in a league that averaged less than 100. Or Shaq averaging 38-16 in a Finals just 10 years ago, or even 33-15 against the DPOY Motumbo. If Shaq could post those kinds of numbers, why not Wilt with 40+ or more...especially against the inferior clods that he would face almost nightly?

Today's fans diminish the records of the past, because they can't accept the fact that yesterday's players could possibly be any better than any of today's. It will be interesting 20 years from now, when that generation makes fun of Jordan, and saying that he would be riding the bench in their era.

While I generally agree with everything here, I will say in regards to Big O's rebounding and assists in todays era. I doubt he can put up the same numbers simply because there are fewer possesions and shots per game, thus fewer chances for rebounds and assists.

[catch24]

Moot comparison. Without Oscar Robertson, there is no Lebron today (or what we see him as). You can't just put him back in that ERA and say "he'd dominate!". In hindsight he would, yes, but is that using perspective? Had Oscar Robertson been born in the 80's he would of benefited from the nutrition and weight programs available today.

[32jazz]

It just amazes me...

Do I think Oscar would average 10 rpg in today's era? Well, how about this...6-8 Dennis Rodman DOMINATED a league of 7-2+ centers, and a 6-3 GUARD, Fat Lever not only led his team in rebounding in the late 80's, he was among the league leaders.

Wilt averaging 50 ppg in today's game? No way right? Just like there was no way a player would score 81 points in a game just a few short years ago...in a league that averaged less than 100. Or Shaq averaging 38-16 in a Finals just 10 years ago, or even 33-15 against the DPOY Motumbo. If Shaq could post those kinds of numbers, why not Wilt with 40+ or more...especially against the inferior clods that he would face almost nightly?

Today's fans diminish the records of the past, because they can't accept the fact that yesterday's players could possibly be any better than any of today's. It will be interesting 20 years from now, when that generation makes fun of Jordan, and saying that he would be riding the bench in their era.

Especially thanks for giving FAT LEVER some love. The guy was a 6'3 guard who averaged nearly 10 rebounds a game in the late 80's ,but they think Oscar Roberston couldn't possibly ever do that?
(Only 4 true 7 footers have even claimed a rebounding title in NBA history so it's more than height/pace that determines rebounding greatness).

Why do people feel that ESPN has the responsiblity of deciding which eras accomplishmnets/achievements are relevant or irrelevant?

Why don't they just post the best damn accomplishments/records & let the fans decide for themselves ?

What ESPN is essentially doing is revisionist history & effectively pushing some great players of the past out of the public imagination for ESPN era icons.